Major & minor keys in swing music

[Lindy Bomb]

Yes, Julius, My Funny Valentine is in a minor key.

A good way to hear the difference between major and minor easily is to sit down with someone who plays piano. Have them play happy birthdy in major (the key it's written), then play it in minor. You'll hear the difference and it's much easier to explain it through musical example than through overly wordy posts about progressions (which you wouldn't understand anyway). Try that with several familiar songs and you'll be able to identify major and minor by ear without formal training, just make sure when you're first listening that you know which mode (major or minor) you're in. After you feel confident, have them test you and play familiar pieces in the correct key and/or relative major/minor without telling you what it is and you have to tell them which is which. After that, have them play tunes that are major or minor as written and you tell them which is which.

Once you can do all of that you should be set, and ready to move on to other modes. Hehehe. Anyone wanna name a popular tune in dorian?

[Yakov]

someone told me "The Simpsons" is lydian

yes, hearing/playing this stuff is key, of course.

-yakov

[djstarr]

Once you can do all of that you should be set, and ready to move on to other modes. Hehehe. Anyone wanna name a popular tune in dorian?

From http://www.epinions.com/content_86817476228:

SO WHAT

This album opener is rooted in the Dorian mode in D, but does ascend up into E-flat for 8 bars, then back to D. The interplay between the bass and piano at the beginning sets the scene well, establishing it in the Dorian, then kicks off the well known now-jazz-standard with it's incredibly catchy melodic line. Miles' much-transcribed improvisation then comes in after 32 bars - the opening of which was referred to by jazz critic and author John Fordham as, "...the sound of jazz". From then on the groove is pretty much steady until, on the recording, it fades on a melodic vamp featuring the rhythm section. A classic tune - you'll never get tired of it.

Do I win?

[Yakov]

thanks for posting about AABA form - I'd say it was pretty common that the bridge (B) would be in a different key than the chorus (A) so it can be distinguished as the bridge right? And often it would be minor if the chorus was major and vice versus.......

Short, non-theory answer is no, not necessarily. I'd say that most songs stay in one mode (major or minor) all the way through. Some songs do switch from minor to major. Sometimes the bridge is in a different key altogether (like the A section in C major and the B section in F major). It varies.

If I were going to get more into the chords and theory, I'd tell you about temporary tonicizations, secondary dominant chords, and modulations to the IV -- but I thinikk you're all fed up with that crap from me Some time we'll all get together and huddle around a piano and talk about some of this stuff.

Isn't Solomon on this board? He could probably kick my ass on this thread...

-yakov

[Lindy Bomb]

Those answers are possibly correct, but not the answer I was looking for. Two that pop into my head right away are: Greensleeves and Scarborough Fair. There are many more, but those are the first two popular songs that I think of.

Yeah, Yakov...all the theory talk can just be confusing. I understand it, but only because I've taken years of music theory. Theory is just a way of explaining what we hear, nothing more. So don't worry if you don't know what' he's talking about. You probably do, you just don't know it.

[Yakov]

sorry... i reread my posts today and, despite my best intentions, they did end up a mess of gibberish. i spend so much time these days around third-year music majors that i forget how to talk like a regular person

[julius]

no offense, but i had said everything that needed to be said.

*kisses self*

[djstarr]

Julius - the "minimalist" - you crack me up!

Although I think we've lost most of the crowd with this thread I've enjoyed it since it's made me listen to the music closer.

At this point I wholeheartedly disagree that swing music is primarily major; I have been listening to a lot of songs in minor keys (of course I've also been listening to early 30's this week and perhaps there is a correlation between the depression and the number of songs in minor keys?.......)

Interesting thread.

[Yakov]

could be.

i think most swing is major, but since there's a lot of swing overall, there's a lot of minor stuff too.

[kitkat]

Ridin' and Jivin', Earl Hines, 1937-1939 (WM) (RA)
Blackstick (beg-0:58; 2:06-end), Sidney Bechet, 1937-1938 (WM)
Joshua Fit the Battle, Sidney Bechet, The Complete Blue Note Recordings

[Nando]

I think the reason that major keys are typically used in swing is because major keys are the default for most Western music; minor keys are reserved to say something special.

"Easy to Remember" By William Zinsser talks about how Cole Porter and the Gershwins were the first songwriters to incorporate minor keys in their songs. They were influenced by the music of their forefathers, immigrants. So, they incorporated Russian-Jewish heritage in their music.

I've only glossed over this thread, but I've seen at least one song mentioned, "Summertime," that was written by Gershwin.

[scowl]

A good way to hear the difference between major and minor easily is to sit down with someone who plays piano. Have them play happy birthdy in major (the key it's written), then play it in minor.

I think there should be a tradition to play "Happy Birthday" in minor on birthdays that end in a zero (30, 40, 50 etc.).

[kitkat]

Jungle Nights in Harlem, Duke Ellington, Jungle Nights in Harlem
(Thanks for playing it & having your laptop screen on, Giselle!)

[Haydn]

Ridin' and Jivin', Earl Hines, 1937-1939 (WM) (RA)

Interesting thread which I've just seen for the first time. Ridin' and Jivin' has a fine main riff in a minor key.
Till Tom Special by Lionel Hampton is another good track in a minor key. Both this and Ridin' and Jivin' seem to have a similar mood, which I am sure is due to the minor key. Both have a sort of steady relentless driving quality. I think the minor key means they can improvise on one chord for long passages, a bit like blues.

[la musette]

I'm not sure on the theory here, but I love Willow Weep For Me because it has this interesting tension of simultaneously existing in major and minor at the same time. Maybe someone could elaborate.