a study in frustration?

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AlekseyKosygin · #1 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:48 pm

worth pickin up? how's the sound quality?

i'm looking to pick up a bunch of henderson stuff so i can hear the transition from a jazz upbeat to a downbeat, got chronological classics 1927 and he's definetly not there yet...

Soupbone · #2 Post by **Soupbone** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:12 am

I'm a Henderson fanatic, and I own Study in Frustration. I find the quality to be quite good (it various throughout the 3 discs, as the recording sessions were varying in fidelity).

It's a great collection and worth having, although I'm not sure it's where I'd go to seek that transitional period..... (not that I have an alternative for you. Sorry).

mark0tz · #3 Post by **mark0tz** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 8:53 am

This really doesn't have anything to do with the album at hand, sorry, but it reminded me of Studies in Clinton - Larry Clinton. Good shtuff... Pardon the Interruption.

AlekseyKosygin · #4 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:17 pm

Soupbone wrote:I'm a Henderson fanatic, and I own Study in Frustration. I find the quality to be quite good (it various throughout the 3 discs, as the recording sessions were varying in fidelity).

It's a great collection and worth having, although I'm not sure it's where I'd go to seek that transitional period..... (not that I have an alternative for you. Sorry).

Well if it's chronological I'll get some kind of rough idea...It is chronological right? Glad to hear good things about the sound quality...the packaging looks great too...

Soupbone · #5 Post by **Soupbone** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:39 pm

AlekseyKosygin wrote: Well if it's chronological I'll get some kind of rough idea...It is chronological right? Glad to hear good things about the sound quality...the packaging looks great too...

I'll be honest... I can't recall specifically if it's chonological or not... If memory serves, it is. But, I'm not sure how well memory serves at this point. Neither allmusic nor amazon confirms or denies either. Sorry!

Soupbone · #6 Post by **Soupbone** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:24 am

FYI: This set is on ebay currently.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=1056

falty411 · #7 Post by **falty411** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 9:50 am

AlekseyKosygin wrote: so i can hear the transition from a jazz upbeat to a downbeat, got chronological classics 1927 and he's definetly not there yet...

i believe Andy Kirk's "Mary's Idea" is good to hear the transition

Soupbone · #8 Post by **Soupbone** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 1:13 pm

Speaking of Fletcher, has anyone checked out the book "Hendersonia?" It's apparantly long out of print and I've seen it come up once on eBay (I think it sold for like $150...ouch).

Anyway, I just thought to look in our campus library (I work at GSU in Atlanta), and lo and behold, we have it. It's a monster (~650 pages), filled with mucho details on discography, sidemen, and bio info.

CafeSavoy · #9 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 2:46 pm

You can hear the transition in his playing on _Hocus Pocus_, a smaller compilation that is arranged chronologically. The _A Study in Frustration/Thesaurus of Classic Jazz_ seems to be arranged chronologically; the first 20 or so tracks seem to all be early Henderson. As Mike noted you can hear the transition on other compilations too, e.g., you can hear it in the McKinney Cotton Pickers recordings.

AlekseyKosygin · #10 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 2:56 pm

Cafesavoy...

which McKinney's CD can you hear the transition on? That's cool you mention them because I was planning on picking something up from them soon...

a great CD you can hear an upbeat to downbeat transition is Bennie Moten 1930-1932 Chronological...

About Henderson, I couldn't wait...I ended up buying four chronologicals from 1927 to 1937 that way I know I will hear the transition by one of the most influential swing big bands ever...

CafeSavoy · #11 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:43 pm

A good cd is The Band Don Redman Built (Bluebird/RCA) although i'm not sure if it's still in print. Soupbone can probably give you some good suggestions on where to start.

Soupbone · #12 Post by **Soupbone** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 8:32 am

Unfortunately, I'm always at work when I'm checking the 'net. If I can remember to do it, I'll dig through my McKinney's Cotton Pickers discs next week (this weekend is SSJ in Atlanta), and thow out some opinions.

*(edited for stupid grammar error)

julius · #13 Post by **julius** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:13 am

It's interesting to me that music went from

ONE two ONE two (hot jazz)

to

one two three four (swing)

to

one TWO three FOUR (rock and roll)

i have no point here.

AlekseyKosygin · #14 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:55 pm

It's interesting to me that music went from

ONE two ONE two (hot jazz)

to

one two three four (swing)

to

one TWO three FOUR (rock and roll)

i have no point here.

---

no yea you do...

but i always thought it was:

ONE two, ONE - two beat 20's jazz with an unbeat

to

one, TWO, one TWO - two beat 20's jazz with a downbeat

to

one, TWO, three, FOUR - 4 beat jazz with a down beat, 30's jazz as what most people today know as swing

Soupbone · #15 Post by **Soupbone** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:27 am

I didn't have a chance to spend a LOT of time with it. But, while DJing this weekend at SSJ, I went through some of my McKinney's Cotton Pickers discs. I think you'll find your best examples of "transitional" stuff off of their later recordings, actually..

Check the Chrono Classics release that has their latest recordings, along with some Don Redman stuff from '38-'40.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=am ... se4j572wav

I think I hear so much of the "early jazz" sound in them (even on these recordings from the mid and late 30s), because they continued to use the tuba in their recordings, which so often gives a 2/4 feel to me.

SwingDJs

a study in frustration?

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