Music Monopoly

[Lawrence]

On a side note, of the four DJs mentioned, I don't really think their tastes are all that similar. Unless, by similar, you mean, "not what Mike would play."

Exactly.

[Mr Awesomer]

Mike, your tone clearly implies...

You can hear his tone?

[falty411]

Mike, your tone clearly implies that your answer is that it is a bad thing

since when is there tone on internet forums? isnt that how most misunderstandings on these boards come about, because we cant hear tone?

and that you are raising the issue only because you feel frustrated by it. Perhaps you should consider the REASONS why they are asked the DJ all these events. It is in part promotion, but it also comes from their diverse musical tastes, diverse collections, and--perhaps more than anything--the fact that they would NEVER use the sort of harsh tones, snooty criticisms, and outright dogmatism that you (and I) have used on this board and elsewhere. They are great DJs and they are easy to work with.

Like I said, the question isnt about how. I dont think any of these people have been unethical in obtaining gigs. Im just wondering how, as a scene, this affects us? The DJs in question dont play the EXACT same music, but it is very similar is years, tempos, msuicians and feel. I dont think neither you nor I care about our DJing "careers and therefore we are more open to state how we feel. Just because these DJs dont use those harsh tones and criticisms online doesnt mean they DONT do it offline. Because they do.

It is frustrating for some DJs to see the same DJs
everywhere.

personally it is more frustrating for me as a dancer to hear the same DJs everywhere.

Nonetheless, it is not an inherently bad thing.

agreed, it isn't inherently bad at all. It has the potential to be a a very bad thing or very good thing, especially depending on how you look at it.

If the dominant DJs were snootier and more limited in their musical tastes, then it would be a bad thing. But I can think of far worse scenarios. Moreover, I completely agree with Kalman's point about how Jesse, Rayned, and Greg have shared their love, not hogged it, and how encouraging they are, instead of being snooty and consciously hoarding gigs.

I wouldnt acuse any of the aformentioned DJs of hoarding anything. However, lets say Jesse, Rayned, and Greg are the top three DJs. There is a very large group of people who would feel alienated if these are the 3 djs they get to dance to (doesnt seem as diverse as you claim).

btw for this thread I am speaking as a dancer, not a DJ.

[Mike]

Mike, your tone clearly implies [etc...]

I was really confused, I thought you were talking to me for a minute.

[falty411]

Also, I find that the live music at HJDF and Frankie's B-day leaves a much greater impression on me than the DJ'd music did.

agreed

[yedancer]

since when is there tone on internet forums?

Um, ever since people have used writing as a form of communication, tone has been a part of the written word.

"Tone in writing refers to the writer’s attitude toward the reader and the subject of the message. The overall tone of a written message affects the reader just as one’s tone of voice affects the listener in everyday exchanges."

[julius]

Yeah but Lawrence is projecting thoughts and feelings onto the points Mike is raising, which is one SURE FIRE WAY to start an argument.

Stop projecting. Read the words and take them as written. Imagine every possible tone, not just the first one that leaps to mind.

THEN respond.

[falty411]

this thread isnt supposed to be about old vs new or hollywood vs. savoy or whatever.

it also isnt about insulting the DJs or organizers or anything along those lines. Those are completely unrelated to the basic question.

Is this good or bad for dancing/the scene etc?

I think that if 2 teachers were teaching 80% of the events out there, that it would be a bad thing as well......

[falty411]

wait....did julius just stand up for me?

[CafeSavoy]

Does it bother anyone else that 2 djs, with very similar musical preferences are responsible for music at the following (in my opinion) major events:
Virginia State Open

Good for them for getting the business, but isn't it bad for us as dancers? I would like to know your opinions.

I'm curious why Virginia State Open is on the list? As far as i know Donna Barker is in charge of the music. Is it on the list just because Greg is listed as one of the djs? That makes me wonder about the other events listed.

[Greg Avakian]

Jesse, Rayned, and Greg are the top three DJs.

Note to self:
Rememebr to use above bastardized quote as part of destiny fulfilling tidal wave to further my swing DJ career...

[falty411]

its nice to see two of the three drop in and completely avoid the question altogether.

Do either of you have an opinion you would like to share? Reuben you too.

[Shorty Dave]

Does it bother anyone else that 2 djs, with very similar musical preferences are responsible for music at the following (in my opinion) major events:

First of all, I'm curious by what you mean "responsible for". Do you mean they pick the competition music? Or they pick all the DJs for the event? Or what? For example, HOT LX, Greg is one of many DJs there; he's not a cooridinator or anything, or even the "head DJ" or something like that. Nicole, Janice, (and I to some extent) chose the DJs for HJDF. Jesse did competition music at HJDF. But you were "responsible for" some of the social dancing music. When I look at the list of events you mentioned, I definitely don't think that those events where dominated by one or two specific DJs or that one or two specific DJs were "responsible for" that event's music.

Second, you listed 16 events (some of them exchanges). Even if they were "responsible for" the music at all those events (which I* highly* disagree with in the first place), I *hardly* call that a monopoly. You mentioned only a small handful of exchanges...do you know how many exchanges you are missing? And what about other events such as Camp Hollywood, Triple Crown Summitt, Swingout Northwest, Swingout Nowhere, ULHS, NYLHO, Summer Swing Jam, Swingin' New England, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

Finally, *even if* these two mysterious, unnamed people are "responsible for" all those events. And *even if* it was a monopoly/large majority of events, then in that case...

...no, I still would not have a problem with this. Maybe if they played the same music the whole time it could get a little boring. But I'll be damned if someone thinks Jesse's late night set at the Albany Exchange is just like the competition music he played at HJDF, and if both of those where the same as his "prime time" social dancing set at NADC. If it was a one-dimensional DJ, then there'd be a major problem. But the reason Jesse, Rayned, and Greg are so popular is 'cuz the breadth and depth of their collection and knowledge and ability to read a floor are so great that they don't get stale.

(Plus, of course, they're great people; and they have helped many an aspiring DJ with their collection)

[Lawrence]

Mike[y], your tone clearly implies that your answer is that it is a bad thing

since when is there tone on internet forums? isnt that how most misunderstandings on these boards come about, because we cant hear tone?

I completely agree that lots of unnecessary disputes arise from falsely attributing hostile vocal tones to neutrally-intended written statements (you don't know HOW much I agree with that!!! ), but "tone" in writing refers to the manner of expression, not just vocal inflection. In your first post, you wrote "Isn't it a bad thing..." not an open-ended "Is it good or bad?" You similar choice of words elsewhere also conveyed a clear "tone."

Like I said, the question isnt about how. I dont think any of these people have been unethical in obtaining gigs. Im just wondering how, as a scene, this affects us? The DJs in question dont play the EXACT same music, but it is very similar is years, tempos, msuicians and feel.

I do not agree that their styles are similar unless, as Swifty noted, they "similarly" do not play the narrow range of music you seem to prefer.

To not be entirely antagonistic, I agree to an extent with your ultimate point. Although I can envision far worse scenarios and far worse people to be the most popular DJs (not the "top DJs," but the "most popular DJs"), I definitely do think that it would be "better" for more DJs to get more exposure. I also agreed in the HJDF thread that having Reuben or Peter (Classic Swing oriented DJs) be the head DJs at HJDF would perhaps have been more appropriate than Greg, Jesse or Rayned. (But that might have reflected the organizer's desires to keep it about more than just what Harlem music once WAS, but instead what it has influenced TODAY.)

Moreover, as much as you might not like me or Austin, we made a conscious decision to not fly them in to Austin this year and to not treat them any more special than the other DJs we select. As much as I do respect them, I considered it unfair to treat them that much more special than the other DJs of equal caliber: and there ARE other DJs of equal caliber coming to Austin already.

But, again, I suspect that your criticism lies in not appreciating how diverse their tastes actually are, not in accurately noting how narrow or limited their tastes are. I suspect your perceptions of how unhappy people are with their DJing is grossly skewed by your own tastes, not an observation of other's tastes. I also don't think it is horrible or worth feuding about. On a scale between good and bad, it is in the middle. I also understand why it happens (their diversity, their personalities, the fact that the "public" can't keep track of all the National DJs like we do...), which mollifies most of the concerns I have about it.

[yedancer]

It would be silly to pidgeon-hole Jesse into a narrow range of music. He clearly is a diverse DJ, and an amazing asset to our community. But, it would also be silly to hold that Jesse does not have a specific image and DJ style associated with him. Add to that the fact that he DJ's at, like, EVERY big swing event, (preceding statement not to be taken literally) and it's pretty clear what Mikey is getting at.

The question is, is it GOOD or BAD for rockstar DJs to have so much air time? I think it could be bad. Lot's of average-joe dancers have grown so accustomed to Jesse's DJing they start to frown upon people who don't DJ like him. At exchanges, I frequently hear dancers giving their opinion of a DJ in the following manner: "Well, compared to Jesse Miner . . . "

Of course, I think we should be glad that it's someone like Jesse who has such a prominent "position" and not someone like . . . well, I won't name names.