Does Good DJ == Good Dancer?

[OneTrueDabe]

From the "Which Came First, The Chicken or the Egg" department...

Does somebody have to be a Good Swing Dancer to be a Great Swing DJ?

Can a non-dancer develop an ear for what makes a dancable song?

A lot of times when I'm out dancing, somebody will play a piece which would sound GREAT if I were listening to it in the car, for example, but out on the floor it's just a trainwreck. You look around the room and all the good dancers are stymied. (The beginners, ironically enough, are so focused on doing "Triple Step, Triple Step, Rock-Step" that they don't even bother listening to the music anyway, so they look pretty good by comparison...)

And you can tell the song isn't, like, meant to be a "challenge" (It's not *THAT* far out of left field) -- more like the DJ just had no clue that the song was { too jazzy, badly recorded, just kind of "blah..." }

I have to wonder sometimes, has the DJ even *TRIED* dancing to those songs??

Or is that the point? Are those the heady, cerebral songs that certain DJs feel compelled to "enlighten" us about?

(Footnote: Not to toot my own horn TOO much, but lest you think, "You need to learn to dance, bucko," I *AM* a good lead, with a ton of musicality. Ask any of the girls in DC! *Toot, toot* Hehe!!)

[Lawrence]

(Footnote: Not to toot my own horn TOO much, but lest you think, "You need to learn to dance, bucko," I *AM* a good lead, with a ton of musicality. Ask any of the girls in DC! *Toot, toot* Hehe!!)

What would your perception of tooting your own horn "too much" be?

As for the question, it certainly helps to know how to dance to the music you play, and I know I have enthusiastically played some songs... until I finally tried dancing to them, myself and realized they just don't work.

However, I know great dancers who are awful DJs and just-o.k. dancers who are phenomenal DJs. (Indeed, the latter is quite common). I also know great dancers who are great DJs and awful dancers who are awful DJs. There is not a firm correlation.

[CafeSavoy]

I think knowing the dance you're djing helps. I think it's probably better to be at least an intermediate level dancer than a beginner. But I'm not sure if you need to be an advanced dancer.

[Mr Awesomer]

There is not a firm correlation.

Indeed... though there seems to be one constant... all the WORST DJ's I've ever encountered were not dancers of any level.

[Lawrence]

There is not a firm correlation.

Indeed... though there seems to be one constant... all the WORST DJ's I've ever encountered were not dancers of any level.

O.K. Granted. Incompetence is a common causal factor.

[Haydn]

I think knowing the dance you're djing helps. I think it's probably better to be at least an intermediate level dancer than a beginner. But I'm not sure if you need to be an advanced dancer.

I agree . Perhaps the more advanced a dancer you are, the more tempting it is to gear your music to 'advanced dancers'. But it's also hard to remember what it was like as a beginner.

[J-h:n]

Perhaps the more advanced a dancer you are, the more tempting it is to gear your music to 'advanced dancers'.

Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean challenging music. Many advanced dancers actually prefer the safe, medium-tempo stuff that they know well, perhaps because they like to focus on technical aspects of the dance rather than the music. These dancers make predictable but very beginner-friendly DJ:s. Often it's the intermidate dancers who like musical challenges best. They tend to make the sort of wildly experimental DJ:s who drive beginners (and a lot of experienced dancers) to distraction.

But this probably has more to do with experience than dancing ability.

[patrik]

I have to wonder sometimes, has the DJ even *TRIED* dancing to those songs??

Sometimes that really is a legitimate question.
A good dj is also a good dancer because he/she testdances the music before playing it.

[Lawrence]

Were Basie or Ellington good Lindy Hoppers? Did Artie Shaw do Bal?

[kitkat]

Lawrence, I think you're trying to make an A:B::A:C sort of comparison.

However, if any of the lousy non-dancing DJs people had in mind while commenting on this thread actually watched as much dancing night after night as the bandleaders you mentioned, I'll stand corrected.

[Lawrence]

Lawrence, I think you're trying to make an A:B::A:C sort of comparison.

However, if any of the lousy non-dancing DJs people had in mind while commenting on this thread actually watched as much dancing night after night as the bandleaders you mentioned, I'll stand corrected.

Yes. As I said, I do think it helps for the exact reasons stated above (you get to weed out music that otherwise sounds perfect), but the rhetorical questions point out how knowledge of rhythm and of music does not necessarily entail the expert body control, balance, athleticism, ability to lead with your body, not your arms, ability to follow instead of back-lead and yet still be able to actively contribute, etc. necessary to be a top-notch dancer. And I'm not making excuses--I taught Lindy for years and CAN dance --just pointing out the lack of a common causal relationship.

[OneTrueDabe]

Were Basie or Ellington good Lindy Hoppers? Did Artie Shaw do Bal?

Lawrence, I think you're trying to make an A:B::A:C sort of comparison.

Musicianship -- being able to actually PLAY the instruments -- is a whole 'nother kettle of fish; most musicians can't dance.

And I don't believe great DJs have to be able to play instruments, either -- unless you count the CD player as an instrument, which I sometimes do...

And I'm not making excuses--I taught Lindy for years and CAN dance

NOW who's tooting his own horn?!

[Lawrence]

And I'm not making excuses--I taught Lindy for years and CAN dance

NOW who's tooting his own horn?!

Touche, but I didn't profess to NOT be tooting my own horn, did not elaborate, and did not boast about my reputation with the ladies.

I still consider the comparison between musicians who can't dance and DJs who can't dance to be rather apt: both can know enough about music and rhythm (what MAKES people dance) to negate any necessary causal connection between being a good dancer and being a great DJ. There are sufficient counterexamples both ways: bad DJs who can tear up a dance floor with musicality and a fine reputation amongst the ladies, and there are phenomenal DJs who are not the most accomplished dancers.

Indeed, oftentimes a more advanced dancer can dance (and LOVE doing so) to a complex or off-beat rhythm that completely throws off the average (or even above-average) dancer. And, yes, some people have noted that I have committed that very "sin" over the years; and I am nowhere NEAR the best dancer out there.

Thus, although it can help (and has helped me at times), it can also hurt (and has hurt me at times); there is no direct connection.

[hhedberg]

I do think that being a dancer definitely helps a DJ choose music. On the other hand begin a good dance doesn't mean that somebody will be a good DJ!

I have suffered some through some horrendous nights because the DJ was more dancer then DJ. They picked music that was "good" but didn't have any feel for the floor and didn't really pay much attention to it. Of course these aren't paid DJ's, but in places with small dance scenes you have to take what you can get!

[J-h:n]

Re non-dancing DJs: Do you know Swingin' Swanee from Hamburg, Germany? She's amazing. She was at Herräng last year, invited by the camp solely as a DJ. She doesn't dance at all, but she's been able to support herself as a professional DJ playing nothing but authentic vintage swing since the early 1990's, if I remember correctly - it may even have been the 1980s - anyway, long before there was a lindy hop scene to speak of anywhere, let alone in Germany.

Of course, she's been playing for dancers as long as there have been any around to play for, so she could perhaps be seen as a DJ equivalent to the bandleaders of yore who watched dancers night after night and learned from that.

I don't think there are many DJs like that around, but there is at least one.