Laptop DJing

[zzzzoom]

Dj-1800 just came out with a new beta release - but it's really a pre-beta

But it does integrate iTunes library . . . but it 's not ready for prime time but it is fun to see the changes they have made.

[CountBasi]

I wasn't going to butt in, but I have to say that's a few too many buts for my liking.

[Jonas]

Can anyone recommend an external sound card for a new MacBook Pro?

EXTERNAL SOUNDS CARDS

I'm just about to buy a MacBook (not Pro) and have the same question regarding that hardware. I've looked around for advice in different threads here on swingdjs (a lot of great input), read reviews around the net, and have though about it the following way.


USB (MacBook, MacBook Pro, or almost any other laptop for that matter)

For extreme portability, low price (around 30 USD), and good enough punch, Turtle Beach Micro for USB use seems to be a good choice. It has been discussed earlier in this very thread (I know, there are lots of pages to skim through, but it's an interesting read), and also in another thread on swingdjs. Very mixed reviews on Comp Usa.

Creative's Xmod for USB use is another one that I've been looking at, but it's a little bulkier than the TB Micro, double the price (60 USD) of that one, and the extra features might not be what you need for swing deejaying, but I'm not the one to answer that, since I haven't tried it out for myself. If the sound is better though, I might go for that. It has been discussed in another thread on swingdjs. I've read numerous reviews in Sweden and from across the globe that are very positive in general.

Then there's also the Griffin iMic, which has been around for what seems like ages, and some are happy with it, but others still feel that the output volume is too low, so I've kind of ruled that one out. But it's simple, lightweight, and easy to find in stores everywhere, and priced somewhere inbetween (40 USD) the TB Micro on the cheap and the Xmod on the pricey end. And you could probably get a really cheap used one since it's been around for a while.

I've also looked at the Edirol UA-1EX for USB use, which sells for a little more than the Xmod (65 USD). I thought it would be a sure shot for good quality, since it's a sub-brand from Roland, a company making gear for musicians, but according to Haydn's account in this thread, the much cheaper TB Micro is better, so I don't know what to think anymore. Of course, it has RCA pairings out and in, lines for mics and headphones, with separate volume regulators, which the TB Micro doesn't. Still, to me, the most important things are that I get one high quality output for the master (I don't need two outputs, the headphone jack on my MacBook will be quite good enough for previewing), and that the external sound card comes in a really portable package, like the TB Micro.


EXPRESS CARD (MacBook Pro and some other laptops)

With a MacBook Pro, you have the possibility to use express cards, and not only USB as I will be limited to with a MacBook, but I don't know if there are any sound cards out there yet for that "fairly new" card format. (Like 3 years! Come on, where are the sound cards?)


TYPE II CARDBUS/PCMCIA CARD (Not on MacBook or MacBook Pro, but on many other laptops)

On swingdjs, the Echo Indigo DJ for Type II Cardbus/PCMCIA seems to be the most popular card amongst those who are willing to spend more money (lowest price around 160 USD), but that is not an option for MacBook Pro people until Echo makes an express card version I guess, unless you're willing to use an adapter, but then you could as well go the USB route.


CONCLUSION

Since I'm getting a MacBook, USB will be my only option. Those that I know of who have tried more than one of the USB sound cards above are

- Haydn, who, if I have interpreted his posts correctly, started with an Edirol, changed to Micro, which he liked better because it gave more boost to the output, and finally tried Xmod, which he found quite on par with or better than the Micro, after finally connecting through the right sockets

- Mary Ann, who, if I have interpreted her posts correctly, started with a Micro and thought it ok, but was blown away by the great sound quality of the Xmod, and won't go back to the Micro

Some time later, are you guys still of the same opinion?

I'll probably get an Xmod because I can buy it with together with my MacBook when I go to the Apple retailer tomorrow. If possible, I might have gotten a Micro because it's so small, cheap, reliable, and still seems to fill my needs in audio quality, but the Micro is nowhere to be found in Europe as far as I can see (my Apple retailer figures Turtle Beach "took down their sings" ages ago in Sweden), and amazon.com and other stores selling it don't seem to ship to Sweden. And I need it now. So Xmod it is. You better be right Mary Ann, he he

Any thoughts from others who have tried a few different solutions? (Bear in mind that I have not used a single one of the cards above, I've just amassed info based upon the opinions of others to come to an informed decision. I am buying a card soon since my new MacBook probably will arrive tomorrow...)

/Jonas

[Edited numerous times for more gathered info on sound cards. This laptop thread really could do with a split into something like ten different threads to make it easier searching. It'd be great to have different ones for "my complete laptop dj setup (hardware, software, accessories, etc), updated for 2007", "external sounds cards, updated for 2007", "dj software, updated for 2007", etc. But attempts have been made to no avail, so I'll just help piling up the pages a little...]

[Haydn]

Great research and summary Jonas

I use an iMac PPC G5 and I'm not using any of the 3 external USB sound cards I bought at the moment. In fact, I haven't used any of them since I upgraded to OS X from 10.3 to 10.4 - I haven't used my speakers much and have chucked all the sound cards into a pile for now. But my experience was that the Turtle Beach card seemed a lot better than the Edirol, and the Creative XMod was on a par with the Turtle Beach, and had more options for 'enhancing' the sound. In general, the reliability of the audio output through any of these cards from my Mac seemed to be a problem - there sometimes seemed to be a drain on the computer's performance. My conclusion was that, since most peoples' set up varies a little from the next persons' (and the products are relatively cheap), you sometimes have to buy each different product, and just see which one works best for you. If you can find a good dealer to help you, of course that will make things easier.

[zzzzoom]

- Mary Ann, who, if I have interpreted her posts correctly, started with a Micro and thought it ok, but was blown away by the great sound quality of the Xmod, and won't go back to the Micro

Actually, I have gone back to using the Turtle Beach usb card. It's small, and is absolutely foolproof. I had some interference issues with the Xmod so it is in my laptop bag but I rarely take it out. Another dj here in Cleveland uses the Xmod exclusively and is very satisfied with it (he uses a pc).


Edited to say that - the weekly gig where I dj is a club that has a really bizarre sound system and it changes each week as to how it is put together. This is the only place where I have had any issues with the Xmod - so in all fairness, it probably has more to do with the weird sound system in the club than the Xmod.

[russell]

I faced the same issue as having just bought a new MacBook. I used a Echo Indigo on my PC and was very happy with that. On that basis I went for the Echo AudioFire2 which uses FireWire interface. So far fairly happy (though a bit bigger than the PMCIA card) with the sound. Only complaint is that it comes with a 6 foot cable and I have been looking for something shorter. See details

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireW ... /index.php

[Jonas]

[...] I use an iMac PPC G5 and I'm not using any of the 3 external USB sound cards I bought at the moment. In fact, I haven't used any of them since I upgraded to OS X from 10.3 to 10.4 - I haven't used my speakers much and have chucked all the sound cards into a pile for now. [...]

Haydn, are you coming to Herräng this year? Maybe you'd consider selling your old TB Micro or one of the other two cards currently making no use lying around in a pile?

If not, where did you get hold of your TB Micro? I've been looking around for retailers who are willing to ship to Sweden, and I guess you may have bought it in London?

/Jonas

[Jonas]

Actually, I have gone back to using the Turtle Beach usb card. It's small, and is absolutely foolproof. I had some interference issues with the Xmod so it is in my laptop bag but I rarely take it out. Another dj here in Cleveland uses the Xmod exclusively and is very satisfied with it (he uses a pc).

Edited to say that - the weekly gig where I dj is a club that has a really bizarre sound system and it changes each week as to how it is put together. This is the only place where I have had any issues with the Xmod - so in all fairness, it probably has more to do with the weird sound system in the club than the Xmod.

Thanks for the added info, Mary Ann. Gosh, this makes it hard...

/Jonas

[Jonas]

I faced the same issue as having just bought a new MacBook. I used a Echo Indigo on my PC and was very happy with that. On that basis I went for the Echo AudioFire2 which uses FireWire interface. So far fairly happy (though a bit bigger than the PMCIA card) with the sound. Only complaint is that it comes with a 6 foot cable and I have been looking for something shorter. See details

http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/FireW ... /index.php

Ah, thanks Russell, there you go, I forgot the FireWire options. I really like the ruggedness of most FireWire sound cards (they seem to be for professional musicians on the road, with all the wear and tear that'll bring), and this one seems really slim, not in the TB Micro league of course, but with all those extra features...

The Echo AudioFire2 is a little out of my price range right now (something like the Echo Indigo DJ or more, 190 USD), and has many features I won't use, but I just might get one of those eventually, since it's bound to last forever with that heavy-duty aluminum case. If Echo only could make a medium priced TB Micro type of card in an aluminum shell, that'd be swell

/Jonas

[patrik]

And the M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB?
I've tried it and I will probably buy one in the near future.
Its main drawback could be that you pay for a lot of features that most DJ:s won't need, but it certainly looks and feels rugged.

[OneTrueDabe]

And the M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB?
I've tried it and I will probably buy one in the near future.
Its main drawback could be that you pay for a lot of features that most DJ:s won't need, but it certainly looks and feels rugged.

Most pro DJs shy away from M-Audio soundcards. For instance, I had a Firewire Solo which got freaked out by frequent plugging / unplugging / sleeping / waking / rebooting, etc. -- all the things laptop users tend to do a lot. The only way I could get it to work reliably was to power down my MBP, plug in the soundcard, and power up. EVERY TIME!

The USB versions might handle that better, though... My advice is to try to get ahold of one ahead of time and put it through its paces.

Having said that, however, I have a Firewire 1814 attached to my (considerably more "stable") iMac G5 in the studio, and it works like a champ. YMMV...

On the road, I rock a MOTU Ultralite -- the best damned audio interface, period. It's total overkill for your typical swing gig, but it's nice because I can use it as a standalone mixer, and plug two wireless mics into it, even without a computer. It's great for teaching a lesson at a wedding, e.g.

[patrik]

Most pro DJs shy away from M-Audio soundcards. For instance, I had a Firewire Solo which got freaked out by frequent plugging / unplugging / sleeping / waking / rebooting, etc. -- all the things laptop users tend to do a lot. The only way I could get it to work reliably was to power down my MBP, plug in the soundcard, and power up. EVERY TIME!

Do they shy away because of the problem you describe, or because of something else?

[david]

Myself, I'm not married to the DJ deck metaphore, and I think I prefer a queue-based setup. But I need more laptop DJ experience before I can really say anything.

You have brought up an interesting point here. For me, I can't understand the appeal of a queue-based set-up. I view it as a loss of a very important DJ skill: the ability to vary transitions between songs. With a queue-based set-up I imagine it is difficult to vary the length of space between songs and impossible to cross fade between songs (example: transitioning between two live tracks with lengthy intros/outros) or cue a song to start past a lengthly intro.

Is this just something that a new generation of DJs is are getting used to?

Jesse

This can be solved in a queue-based application. The one I've mentioned before, CuePhase (for the Mac) crossfades between songs, and you can cue the upcoming track to start after the intro. It even tries to find the "actual" en of the song instead of playing until the file ends.

There are a couple of problems still, though. The biggest is tat CuePhase is too buggy to really recommend, but there are a couple of others as well:

1) No way to do the opposite of crossfading, that is inserting air between two tracks.

2) The crossfader is set to a specific transition duration in the configuration.

3) CuePhase has no button for "stop after this track", but I've seen others that have it.

I assume there are other programs with similar features, but different quirks. CuePhase seems to written for the radio station market, which explains some of its features and the playlist approach. All of the points you mention should be simple to solve if you design the interface for the use case.

[OneTrueDabe]

Most pro DJs shy away from M-Audio soundcards. For instance, I had a Firewire Solo which got freaked out by frequent plugging / unplugging / sleeping / waking / rebooting, etc. -- all the things laptop users tend to do a lot. The only way I could get it to work reliably was to shutdown my MBP, plug in the soundcard, and reboot from scratch. EVERY TIME!

Do they shy away because of the problem you describe, or because of something else?

I'm not saying they're pieces of junk to be avoided at all costs... 9 times out of 10, I'm sure they're fine (Like I say, I use an M-Audio interface in the studio and have had zero problems with it.)

But like all things, make sure you put it through its paces -- either before you buy it, if possible, or while it's still in whatever (e.g.) 14-day return period the retailer offers. (IMHO, that's true for ALL equipment...)

[zzzzoom]

And the M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB?
I've tried it and I will probably buy one in the near future.
Its main drawback could be that you pay for a lot of features that most DJ:s won't need, but it certainly looks and feels rugged.

$249? ouch.