Arm chair HJDF DJ battle

[SirScratchAlot]

Naw, they just didn't record much (is there anything besides the one chronoclassic worth of stuff?), and what they did record doesn't have that much range, and I'd notice they were all off the same CD and if it was somebody I knew, I'd go tell 'em to buy some more music.

Nope, thats all they recorded. The funny thing is how much they were loved by the Lindy Hoppers. Few if any bands wanted to go against the Sultans. As for the Music , it was simple riffs, their soloist were below par against the best and they only had 10 players, yet in front of The Savoy Dancers they were unbeatable. Al Coopers advantage was he knew what the dancers wanted.....

[SirScratchAlot]

It's no surprise that a celebration of the Savoy Ballroom would bore you, which makes it a surprise you'd be included in a this particular "battle."

Yes, I am surprised at the selection of DJ's as much as most dancers are. Not that they are not good, because they are good, But for a normal swing night. I would think for this event to use people who have a passion towards this regions music and history.

It almost lame, dancing to great music, knowing the DJ just went out and bought the CD just for us, when in fact he doesn;t like it or will proabably never play it again. I prefer a DJ who is really into what he is playing and is enjoying it as much as those dancing to it....

While you would be bored by the music so many dancers during the Savoy's operation came to dance to night after night after night, those people who packed the Memories Ballroom during our celebration were thrilled to get to dance to music that is so commonly overlooked.

http://www.jivejunction.com/savoyplaylist.htm

.

I still get comments from people who said it was one of the best nights of DJ'ed music they've ever heard....The Hot shots all said this as well.

[Greg Avakian]

For instance, a few weeks ago on one of those Yehoodi "argument threads" someone posted two DJs' selections from a Savoy-based DJ jam. I kept the list as a reference hoping to read about some of the bands and educate myself some (no i never did). Well, I just alphabetized it by artist and I was surprised to see that between them, the two DJs only played *16 artists* (hopefully with a bunch of different bands) during the course of an entire night. Two artists were played 9 times each, but only 1 artist was played once.

I would never want to do that as a DJ. As a patron, I'd be bored.

It's no surprise that a celebration of the Savoy Ballroom would bore you, which makes it a surprise you'd be included in a this particular "battle."

While you would be bored by the music so many dancers during the Savoy's operation came to dance to night after night after night, those people who packed the Memories Ballroom during our celebration were thrilled to get to dance to music that is so commonly overlooked.

Commonly overlooked in L.A.? You should get a weekly gig Reuben! Pack the house every week like Lindy Groove! Celebrate!!!

Also: Dancing to live bands is one thing, dancing to recordings is another. That's my same answer to Lawrence. Live? -it might be great, but recorded? Yeah, I want more than the same 60-70+ year old recordings by the same artists.

Personally, I've always been attracted to what made me want to dance and what gets people on the floor having a good time.

You're so interested in what gets people on the floor having a good time... of course only the people who like what makes you want to dance. Nice double standard.

Not really. I'm a whore. I'll play for whoever is in the house. When I see the floor get packed for 'Blee blop blues', I'll play it more and more.

Yep, it's a surprise that I would be choosen for this battle -IF it's defined as you see fit to define it.

No evolution = Ballroom-like stasis. Ho-hum ...I'm not interested n "managing" Lindy into oblivion.

[Mr Awesomer]

No evolution = Ballroom-like stasis. Ho-hum ...I'm not interested n "managing" Lindy into oblivion.

No, you'd rather evolve it into extinction.

[Greg Avakian]

When I see people sitting out dances en masse to vintage music I worry, but I also know that there are other people in other places who like that.
Personally, I play to the audience. I don't try to make anyone "realize" what is right or wrong. I'm definitely not interested in extremists on either side (groove or vintage) because THAT is whatwill shrink the scene (today).

Peter, who do you know who is buying CDs for this gig? I don't know allthe DJs personally, but I bet everyone owns the music already from years ago. There is nothing "new" about vintage music. For myself, I can play it exclusively IF that's what people want. But this event isn't limited to people with a narrow vision of "Lindy"; lots of different people will be there -including some (hip hop and latin dancers for example) who will experience Lindy for the first time. So I'm also prepared to play some of Harlem's current regulars like Paience Higgins' Sugar hill quartet. This too is one of Harlem's MANY gifts to the world. Harlem didn't die in the 1940s and neither does most dancers' taste in music.

Besides, if you care, you'll do better turning minds with honey rather than vinager. Y'know those bitter old guys who sit in bars and complain about how this isn't as good as the old days? Some of them aren't so old...
==========================

PS, just for those of you who are too lazy to look at Reuben's link: neither Peter or Reuben played 9 songs *in a row* of the same artist; I was just surprised that between two DJs, they didn't come up with more diverse music -ALTHOUGH I am willing to admit that there may not be that many recordings of other bands who played at the savoy. I'll leave that to the experts to discuss whether it even COULD have been a more diverse set. Lastly, if it's you thing to njoy sets like that, that is fine. It isn't bad or anything, it's just not something that I would want to participate in..

[JesseMiner]

Yes, I am surprised at the selection of DJ's as much as most dancers are. Not that they are not good, because they are good, But for a normal swing night. I would think for this event to use people who have a passion towards this regions music and history.

I personally think the list of DJs are kick-ass, representing the diverse tastes of Lindy Hoppers. I was a strong advocate for having Greg be a part of the DJ battle, and I'm so glad he'll be included.

Don't worry, I'm sure the music celebrating Harlem's contributions will be a strong subset of the music played throughout the weekend. The last two years were a blast, and I'm sure things will only be better this year. I've got some killer music planned for the Hellzapoppin' competition!

Jesse

[SirScratchAlot]

Peter, who do you know who is buying CDs for this gig? I don't know allthe DJs personally, but I bet everyone owns the music already from years ago. There is nothing "new" about vintage music.

Yes, and yes. There is nothing new anout vintage music, if you already own it and it's in your collection. If you just discovered it, then it's as new as anything else. There is vast amount of great Harlem based music from the swing era that Lindy Hoppers where dancing to that I've never heard any DJ play. how much Charlie Johnson, Cecil Scott or Teddy Hill do you own? Charlie Johnson is who Shorty George dance troupe practised with and performed with at Smalls, Teddy Hills Orchestra played and performed with the Berry Brother for several years, Cecil Scott one more Battles at the Savoy then any other band and was the Lindy Hoppers favorite....Just these little side notes alone would be so cool for people to hear who do not know anything. I'm sure everybody on this Board already knows this stuff, But what about the dancers that have never heard this information? I just think This event is the perfect place, that all.
I'm not asking you to play it, I'm just driving a point that there are a few DJ's out there that have a passion for this form of music and the over looked musicians that played there. This "seemed" like the perfect opportunity to give them credit, a Credit the never got because they were Black.

Again, I'll continue to have events in LA in which we do get opportunities to give over due credit to these musicians and dancers, but I'm just saying or thinking the HJDF would have been nice, if not perfect.

PS, just for those of you who are too lazy to look at Reuben's link: neither Peter or Reuben played 9 songs *in a row* of the same artist; I was just surprised that between two DJs, they didn't come up with more diverse music -ALTHOUGH I am willing to admit that there may not be that many recordings of other bands who played at the savoy. I'll leave that to the experts to discuss whether it even COULD have been a more diverse set. Lastly, if it's you thing to njoy sets like that, that is fine. It isn't bad or anything, it's just not something that I would want to participate in..

It was a "Tribute to the Savoy" and we purposefully limited it to only the HOUSE BANDS, NOT just any band that happened to play there. It was for those that have a passion and wanted to spend a night acknowleging the styles of music the Savoy Management acually Hired. All that attended knew what they were going to hear, it was a packed Memories Ballroom and a Happy good time for all that took part, ask anyone that was there.
It was pretty diverse in my eyes and ears, from the 20's to the 50's , from Hot Jazz, Swing, BeBop , all tempos and Blues, any more diverse and we would had to thrown in Billy Joel! LOL....NOT!

[SirScratchAlot]

Yes, I am surprised at the selection of DJ's as much as most dancers are. Not that they are not good, because they are good, But for a normal swing night. I would think for this event to use people who have a passion towards this regions music and history.

I personally think the list of DJs are kick-ass, representing the diverse tastes of Lindy Hoppers. I was a strong advocate for having Greg be a part of the DJ battle, and I'm so glad he'll be included.

hey I didn't mention any names, and I said they are in fact good DJ's...

[
I've got some killer music planned for the Hellzapoppin' competition!

Jesse

yes, I have the list printed out...I like the intire selection , except for "the song of Hellzapoppin" yes, I understand the novelty, But it was a white studio band from Universal Pictures , and Whitey's didn't even dance to this stuff, it was dubbed over....whoops ....there goes history.

but I KNOW this wasn't your selection.

[djstarr]

3. "C-Jam Blues" or "Happy Go Lucky" from Lincoln Center (overplayed a few years ago, but still a good suggestion, Brenda)

(My inclinations would be to anticipate so much hyper-active music that some good slow blues would really "hit the spot" before I would return to somewhat up-tempo music.)

Thanks Lawrence - we haven't really overplayed Live at Swing City out in Seattle yet - especially the faster cuts.

And yes, I agree that some hard-swinging slow blues will go over well.

[Greg Avakian]

PS, just for those of you who are too lazy to look at Reuben's link: neither Peter or Reuben played 9 songs *in a row* of the same artist; I was just surprised that between two DJs, they didn't come up with more diverse music -ALTHOUGH I am willing to admit that there may not be that many recordings of other bands who played at the savoy. I'll leave that to the experts to discuss whether it even COULD have been a more diverse set. Lastly, if it's you thing to njoy sets like that, that is fine. It isn't bad or anything, it's just not something that I would want to participate in..

It was a "Tribute to the Savoy" and we purposefully limited it to only the HOUSE BANDS, NOT just any band that happened to play there. It was for those that have a passion and wanted to spend a night acknowleging the styles of music the Savoy Management acually Hired. All that attended knew what they were going to hear, it was a packed Memories Ballroom and a Happy good time for all that took part, ask anyone that was there.
It was pretty diverse in my eyes and ears, from the 20's to the 50's , from Hot Jazz, Swing, BeBop , all tempos and Blues, any more diverse and we would had to thrown in Billy Joel! LOL....NOT!

Oops, sounds like I shoulda gotten spanked there. Thanks for clarifying that.

As for your comments about the Harlem musicians:
As I said, I am just beginning to be interested in Jazz history. So I am intrigued by your premise, BUT I think a dance event featuring a style/era/whatever needs to be advertised as such. HJDF isn't just for lindy hoppers and I thinkwe should do our best to invite everybody in and make them comfy (my opinion).

As for you personally:
Ideally, I would want an afternoon workshop/presentation and then a night of music -with announcements so we were really focused on it.
I hope you will consider making yourself available for such presentations. I would enjoy spending a day with you, a vcr and your video collection too.

[main_stem]

... we haven't really overplayed Live at Swing City out in Seattle yet - especially the faster cuts.

Wrong, we burned it out back in 2000 just like every other city.

[JesseMiner]

hey I didn't mention any names, and I said they are in fact good DJ's...

Sorry, I should have included the whole quote to which I was referring:

It's no surprise that a celebration of the Savoy Ballroom would bore you [Greg], which makes it a surprise you'd be included in a this particular "battle."

Yes, I am surprised at the selection of DJ's as much as most dancers are. Not that they are not good, because they are good, But for a normal swing night. I would think for this event to use people who have a passion towards this regions music and history.

My comment in support of the DJ line-up, especially Greg, should have been more directed towards Reuben. I incorrectly assumed you were backing up his comments. My bad.

Jesse

[Lawrence]

No evolution = Ballroom-like stasis. Ho-hum ...I'm not interested n "managing" Lindy into oblivion.

No, you'd rather evolve it into extinction.

Dude, you sound EXACTLY like the old farts in the Swing Era who claimed that YOUR beloved original Swing music was the downfall of popular music and a symbol of the overall degreneration of civilized society!!! (Au contraire, mon frere....) Your beloved Classic swing music and Lindy Hop had to come from somewhere, and progress simply did not end in 1945. As Greg noted, that old piss-and-vinegar routine will only get people who agree with you or spineless twerps to nod their heads; it will do nothing but alienate people who are either neutral or already inclined to disagree.

Nonetheless, when you cut through the piss and vinegar, Reuben and Peter do have a legitimate point: why invite DJs who built their reputation on the cutting edge of the "Groovolution" to a DJ competition at the Harlem Jazz Dance Festival while excluding others who are not only known for their "original," Harlem-based music, but who know this sub-genre of Harlem music better and could (might, maybe, perhaps...?) provide a more truly diverse set?

I suspect that the set-up of the competition ironically gives a slight edge to those with smaller collections of relevant music. It is not difficult to come up with 15 minutes of great music, and having a truly diverse collection could serve to dilute the selections of those who have a truly diverse collection. The true test of such a competition should be what the DJ would play in the 2d hour of his set: whether he will come up with a truly diverse set of music within the genre or a monotonous set of lo-fi chatter off bargain discs he bought seven years ago.

[djstarr]

... we haven't really overplayed Live at Swing City out in Seattle yet - especially the faster cuts.

Wrong, we burned it out back in 2000 just like every other city.

LOL - I have a memory like a sieve........

[D Nice]

But on another topic, and looking at the big picture of innovation, in style of dance, Dean simply changed his style to better reflect the modern rhtyhm , which was from the original Savoy Lindy Hop to better match the music of the times which was the more smoothed out swing (Basie) as opposed to the harder 2 beat rhythms of Lunceford of Webb, and thus started calling what he did just "The Lindy" , which was based off utilizing Triples alot more as well as isolating upper body movement to inhance the movement of feet and legs.

so yes, Basie directly effected dancers, either directly or indirectly through all the bands that attempted to swing like the Basies rhtyhm section. We can all feel the difference between the rhythm of the swing bands around 35 and what became mainstream by 1943. I for one beleive this in part because of Count Basie's orchestra.

Damn... see this is what happens when I spend a week in the Archive Center pouring through Ernie Smiths Collection, Peter chimes in with the answer before I even read the question.

Damn.