Hi, My Name is Gary...

[Gary]

To me jazz isn't more cerebral than rock

What I meant by this is that, since the audience is more discriminating and informed, simplistic jazz songs or those performed by less-talented musicians are quickly rejected. It seems like this would result in a higher barrier of entry to truly understanding and appreciating it. This would, as I see it, lead to a "positive feedback": tougher audience weeds out lesser musicians, increasing the "intellect" of the remaining music, raising the barrier of entry to that audience, resulting in an even tougher audience. That's why I wondered if many of you might be music students. It seems too much to just "pick up".

...problem that I see with a lot of local blues bands nowadays - someone who thinks they can play an instrument decides to put a band together and gets the people around him to start a band. Not the best results.

Certainly not the best, readily agreed. Sometimes, though, I find in some of these local bands some redeeming feature which makes them tolerable (to my ear), even enjoyable. Usually, this is lyrics, as I mentioned before. Somtimes it is the vocalist. Sometimes the rhythm. Somtimes it is something less tangible, but it allows me to overlook their other deficiencies.

... all about a driving beat/energy.... you want a good variety, something which most neo bands can't provide.

I'm not sure I would agree with this. While the energy is what draws me to neo, there is a fair amount of variety in there. It may be, admittedly, that I simply have too limited a frame of reference, and that your experience has exposed you to even greater variety, such that that offered by neo bands pales from your perspective.

...it just seems to odd for someone to love rockabilly style music to stay in the lindy scene.

I stay in it for the dancing (I like ECS, lindy, bal, and I'm learning a little shag) and because I simply don't fit into the rockabilly scene. If rockabillies (?) were a little more conventional and danced more and with greater variety, I might feel more comfortable and spend more time there. But I would still not abandon the lindy scene, because I still do appreciate a wider variety of music than rockabilly alone offers.

... I remember back in the day when a mixed relationship wasn't savoy vs hollywood, but someone from the swing scene dating someone from the rockabilly scene.

I'm not quite sure how to take this; you didn't tag it with a smiley, so I'm not sure how serious you mean to be. When I started dancing, there was a pretty general mixing of the crowds. As neo faded, rockabillies stopped showing up. I assumed it was because they didn't like the smoother, groovier sound. Is there more to it, where you live? On the other hand, if I'm taking this statement too seriously, then


-Gary-

[kitkat]

As neo faded, rockabillies stopped showing up. I assumed it was because they didn't like the smoother, groovier sound. Is there more to it, where you live?

And then there's the classic swing movement that came after the smoother, groovier sound! Maybe the rockabillies were already gone by then. I haven't been dancing long enough or in enough scenes to know for sure.

I personally can relate to this quote, though:

My experience is most people (non Lindy Hoppers) are exposed more to 40's pop standards and have a limited view of what swing music really is. When I started dancing, I'd never heard of Chick Webb and associated Count Basie music with the sleepy stuff that Lawrence Welk would play on a PBS holiday special.

I really wish I could spend hours on end going through my classic swing collection with you, though. For years, I've been trying to figure out which of my favorite tracks in that genre would appeal to neo-lovers. You're the first one I've met or heard from with as curious, academic, and downright dedicated an interest in the similarities and differences to be even possibly willing to sit down w/ someone like me for hours and hours.


We need someone like you in town. These mix CDs of mine have been "on the drawing board" for years.

[Haydn]

...and I like neo-swing.

... what is it about neo-swing that makes experienced DJs and dancers revile it so much?

Hi Gary,

Interesting subject and thread.

To help me answer the question, could you please list some examples of neo-swing tracks you like (song and artist)?

Thanks

[Charleston Charlie]

I don't abhor neo - swing, I guess it simply doesn't resonate with me, much. A matter of taste, I suppose. I grew up listening to big band (Dad's records), and he was never a Sinatra fan, so I always did miss the boat on the jump-blues/Vegas thang. So in that way I never had anything in common with neo, a mere question of circumstance.

I find very little in neo that has much in the way of common roots or styles that were predominant in the swing/pre-swing eras - big bands are expensive and there simply aren't the numbers of jazz musicians willing to put the time in to playing big band swing. The jump-blues and early R & B music is easier to reproduce with a five-piece band. That is, if you exclude small-band stuff like the Cats & The Fiddle, and such.


I remember an interview I saw some years back with the members of Indigo Swing - they were quite clear about their influences: specifically, Louis Jordan's Tympany Five - a very popular jump blues / R & B band that was active at the waning years of the swing era, so the divergence of neo-swing from the pure big band sound of the mid 30's to 40's is understandable.

And then there's the classic swing movement that came after the smoother, groovier sound! Maybe the rockabillies were already gone by then. I haven't been dancing long enough or in enough scenes to know for sure.

The Rockabillies are far from 'gone'. The Rockabilly scene is much, much bigger than the swing scene. Particularly in Europe and Japan.

>>I stay in it for the dancing (I like ECS, lindy, bal, and I'm learning a little shag) and because I simply don't fit into the rockabilly scene. If rockabillies (?) were a little more conventional and danced more and with greater variety, I might feel more comfortable and spend more time there.

Why should that bother you, Gary? I'm a little confused by this. From my experience, the Rockabilly scene is, from the cities where I have sampled it, quite a bit more social than the swing scenes tend to be. The dancing isn't the only thing going on for it. I don't have tats or an old car (at present, but I have owned several) and I can still go to a 'billy night and have fun. You don't go to rockabilly nights because they don't shag or bal? That seems like a dodgy reason to shit-can a good time.

[GemZombie]

When I started out dancing there was a lot of neo-swing being played. I enjoyed it and danced to it because the type of dancing that was being taught worked quite well with it. Even then I preferred more classic stuff... or rather probably enjoyed it all equally.

Some of the Neo-Swing bands/songs were quite good. Interesting, driving, and fun.

As I delved deeper into the dance, I discovered that the dance I *wanted* to do didn't fit so well with Neo-Swing. So I listened to less of it, and listened to more of the music that fit the dance I wanted to learn.

Neo Swing often hits you over the head with the beat. That's fun sometimes. Rock music is like that... but that only lasts so long before it gets old. I became more interested in the full rhythm rather than just the "thunk thunk thunk" of a bass and wailing on the drums.

So I suppose it depends on what kind of dancing you and your audience want to do. The discussion has happened over and over, but if you want to truly Lindy Hop then I think you're going to want to play "Lindy Hop music". Yes, we can all swing dance to pretty much anything we feel like (and many do), but I personally think the dance is easier when danced to the music it was built on originally.

Having a healthy appetite for multiple style of music is good though. Don't become jaded like some folks here who probably would rather not admit to buying/owning/loving neo-swing at one point in their swing lives. I'll admit it though. I still love some of the songs, I just don't feel like dancing to them much these days.

[Matthew]

Very well said.

[Haydn]

I remember an interview I saw some years back with the members of Indigo Swing ...

Since you mentioned them, Indigo Swing are one of the few 'new' swing bands I quite like.

Two popular tracks that I like are -

Regular Joe, track 8 on this album
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/ ... 1725&ITM=1

and

Swing Lover, track 7 on this one
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/ ... 8725&ITM=2

It would be interesting to know from Gary which neo-swing tracks he likes

[Haydn]

Neo Swing often hits you over the head with the beat.

Agreed. A 6/8 time signature, a jazz melody and a steady beat are not enough.

[lipi]

Agreed. A 6/8 time signature, a jazz melody and a steady beat are not enough.

unless you want to waltz. :o)

(i think you meant 4/4 (or 2/4, or 2/2, or...ya know). well, probably you meant "six or eight beat patterns" -- but that ain't the same as a time signature.)

[trev]

Just a thought - Would most of our scenes be increasing or decreasing in numbers of dancers over the last 5 years? I wonder if the preference for 'classic swing jazz' by [most of] us DJs and the more experienced dancers, makes swing dancing less accessible and more intimidating for beginners. As much as I hate it, would a bit more neo-swing be the bridge to contemporary pop audiences that could grow our scenes?

[Toon Town Dave]

I believe neo-swing is so far removed from popular music (when was the last time a neo-swing song was on top-40 radio?) and is sufficiently different than the stuff Britney et. al. put out that it's no longer a significant factor in attracting new dancers. Heck, the young'ns don't even know the movies like Swing Kids and Swingers that drew people to the dance in the late 90's.

Right now, the westie scene is big into pop music. If potential dancers are interested in pop music they are more likely to be attracted to westie.

My scene is small and LH'ers and WCS'ers are basically the same group of people so we're not really representative of most scenes. The one thing I've noted is leadership and marketing affect growth. Marketing to gets newbies in the door. Leadership on the part of instructors, organizers and to a large degree the participants provide inspiration and set the tone for dance to be an enjoyable activity, music is secondary.

Perhaps some Seattle or Vancouver people will pipe up but those scenes have seen phenomenal growth in the last year or two and both lean strongly toward classic swing or at least jazz, no neo-swing.

[GemZombie]

Interestingly enough, when Neo-Swing was the rage here the numbers started declining after a while. When I took over DJing and started concentrating on classic swing our numbers went up. By playing primarily classic swing I have doubled our attendence. It could be unrelated, or more likely also due to other things (like free lessons) that brought the numbers up, but I prefer to see it as people appreciating the music.

[Nando]

Gary,

You say you're in a small market. Are you the only DJ there? Or is there someone else with similar or different tastes than you. What's the makeup of the crowd? I'm assuming mostly beginners, but is it older or younger? What songs do you play that keep the floor full?

It may be important to have an understanding of the music, to educate yourself, and to figure out what makes a song popular or successful in this scene. But it's important to see what drives the crowd. Some different scenes prefer a different selection.

[Eyeball]

Someone up there raised a good point about the 'distance' of neo-swing to new dancers. It's history.

Real Swing and neo-Swing may both be alien concepts to newer sceners. At least classic gets some exposure in movies and tv shows. More people listened to it over the decades then people did neo-swing over the few years it has lasted.

Older as it is, classic Swing may have just as much or more relevance and 'accessability' to new people.

I also think it helps people to know what the differences between a sax and a trombone and a trumpet are. Good, basic stuff......

[Bob the Builder]

I must say I hear a lot of Neo style music being used in current television advertising, well in Australia and when I was living in Ireland anyway.

Brian

PS
I hate using the word Neo. I’ve never seen any reliable source define it, and thus the terminology can lead to confusion. However “Retro Swing” has been defined on Allmusic.com