Regarding "classic" and "groove" style s

[Ryan]

I definitely didn't mean that Chick Webb is undanceable , just that it is difficult for the same person to like to dance to both Chick Webb and Gene Harris

What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can like dancing to both. Some people like vareity you know.

[yedancer]

I definitely didn't mean that Chick Webb is undanceable , just that it is difficult for the same person to like to dance to both Chick Webb and Gene Harris

What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can like dancing to both. Some people like vareity you know.

Um, yeah. I know plenty of people who like both, me included.

[CafeSavoy]

I definitely didn't mean that Chick Webb is undanceable , just that it is difficult for the same person to like to dance to both Chick Webb and Gene Harris

What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can like dancing to both. Some people like vareity you know.

Exactly. Everyone will weigh more heavily towards one feeling or the other, but most like a variety of textures. As as Gemzombie points out the lines are not that clear. You can like classic music and also like jump blues. Or you might like groove music but also prefer classic over jump blues. And some people might like a variety of music from each era. Also the groove/classic dichotomy is incomplete. Not all modern music is "groove". And some old music is "groove".

As an aside, it's sad that such a great word has become so contentious. A jazz text i was reading recently stated that groove and swing are synonymous with good jazz.

[djstarr]

Yeah, I also really like all kinds of music. I'm just starting to DJ in Seattle; we have several excellent DJ's local and in our extended scene (Kevin Tamura, Kevin Schaper, Travis Whetman, Tonya Surface) who have been focusing on the swing era of jazz.

So I've been playing more jump blues and groove plus modern stuff I like (Swing Session, Lavay, Lily Wilde etc.). People seem to enjoy this, especially the newbies.

However, I don't want to get labelled as a "groovester" or a "blues dj" --- I've been starting to buy more vintage stuff (I really like Cab Calloway and Lucky Millinder).

It's a tough call though, since the people in Seattle already playing vintage are way better DJ's and more established.

I'm hoping to develop a reputation as a DJ who plays all kinds of music depending on what crowd shows up, but I think I have my work cut out for me!

[djstarr]

we have several excellent DJ's local and in our extended scene (Kevin Tamura, Kevin Schaper, Travis Whetman, Tonya Surface) who have been focusing on the swing era of jazz.

And I might add that all the above DJ's have developed their music through the various phases of the Seattle scene, that's why they are good --- I didn't want to give the impression that they only played vintage; however when someone wants to hear good vintage music, these are the people who get the gigs.

I remember when Kevin Schaper showed up at SONW 2000 with a bunch of vintage stuff and everyone fled to the "groovier" room; now they come out in droves to hear him and Kevin T spin

[KevinSchaper]

Yeah, I also really like all kinds of music. I'm just starting to DJ in Seattle; we have several excellent DJ's local and in our extended scene (Kevin Tamura, Kevin Schaper, Travis Whetman, Tonya Surface) who have been focusing on the swing era of jazz.

I only get to be that vintage focused (& high energy) a few times a year - if I tried to play a set like those on a regular night in Portland everyone would just sit there staring at me and wondering what made me hate them all of a sudden. :)

--edit .. yes, clearing that room was a crowning achievement in my dj career. every last person left. The year after I managed to get a bad review for playing organ music and stuff with vibes at the NYE thing in san diego.. I think I finally did ok a the last SONW. :)

[Ron]

I'm glad to hear lots of DJs saying they play all styles, and it is certainly true that the definitions are fuzzy and that many DJs range all over the spectrum with various dashes of jump blues, rock and roll and modern pop swing thrown in.

But my experience is counter to the poll results show so far. I think I've noticed that the "groove" DJs play more classic songs than the "classic" DJs play groove songs. We had a couple of DJs in San Diego that pretty much just played fast and classic songs. You wouldn't hear an Barbara Morrison, late-era Basie, Jimmy Witherspoon or Gene Harris song from them ever. And I've been at a few exchanges where the "classic" DJs play song after song of pre-1946 songs with nary a break. And this fits with the on-line claims of some DJs that "groove" isn't Lindy Hop music, and so it doesn't surprise me that some DJs won't stoop low enough, so to speak, to play any "groove" at all.

But I've had a different impression of many "groove" DJs. Like myself, they don't have any agendas about what proper Lindy Hop music is, so they will play anything that gets the crowd dancing, including classic songs. But there are plenty of us that do require a certain bare minimum of sound fidelity. But I hope the number of "groove" DJs that play nothing but "groove" are few. But I haven't traveled a lot, so I may be wrong.

Anyway, I think I'm one DJ who plays more "token" classic songs than many classic DJs play "token" groove songs.

In any event, its good if everyone mixes it up a little.

[GemZombie]

As an aside, it's sad that such a great word has become so contentious. A jazz text i was reading recently stated that groove and swing are synonymous with good jazz.

Indeed!

The word will forever be tainted for me now

A good funk song "grooves"

[main_stem]

I'm glad to hear lots of DJs saying they play all styles, and it is certainly true that the definitions are fuzzy and that many DJs range all over the spectrum with various dashes of jump blues, rock and roll and modern pop swing thrown in.

But my experience is counter to the poll results show so far. I think I've noticed that the "groove" DJs play more classic songs than the "classic" DJs play groove songs. We had a couple of DJs in San Diego that pretty much just played fast and classic songs. You wouldn't hear an Barbara Morrison, late-era Basie, Jimmy Witherspoon or Gene Harris song from them ever. And I've been at a few exchanges where the "classic" DJs play song after song of pre-1946 songs with nary a break. And this fits with the on-line claims of some DJs that "groove" isn't Lindy Hop music, and so it doesn't surprise me that some DJs won't stoop low enough, so to speak, to play any "groove" at all.

But I've had a different impression of many "groove" DJs. Like myself, they don't have any agendas about what proper Lindy Hop music is, so they will play anything that gets the crowd dancing, including classic songs. But there are plenty of us that do require a certain bare minimum of sound fidelity. But I hope the number of "groove" DJs that play nothing but "groove" are few. But I haven't traveled a lot, so I may be wrong.

Anyway, I think I'm one DJ who plays more "token" classic songs than many classic DJs play "token" groove songs.

In any event, its good if everyone mixes it up a little.

I would say the exacyt opposite, but I would like to think I would't be so condensending.

[yedancer]

So something that ought to be addressed is the following question: was the "groove" trend started by DJs, or did the DJs just adjust to the changing tastes of dancers? Which came first, the "groove DJ" or the "groove dancer?"

[KevinSchaper]

So something that ought to be addressed is the following question: was the "groove" trend started by DJs, or did the DJs just adjust to the changing tastes of dancers? Which came first, the "groove DJ" or the "groove dancer?"

instructors are where a lot of music taste has come from..

I think you'd hafta be more specific about what "groove" means here, if "groove" includes new testament Basie, then most everyone dancing is a couple of generations removed from somebody who learned from Frankie while dancing to Shiny Stockings, Easy Does It, and all that stuff.. If you mean more in the direction of soul jazz, I think that came more out of DJs looking for interesting stuff to throw in, and dancers digging it.

[Lawrence]

I definitely didn't mean that Chick Webb is undanceable , just that it is difficult for the same person to like to dance to both Chick Webb and Gene Harris

What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can like dancing to both. Some people like vareity you know.

Um, yeah. I know plenty of people who like both, me included.

You seem to be quoting me out of context and completely misinterpreting what I wrote. I didn't say it was impossible or bad to appreciate both, just acknowledging a rather obvious point that is at the heart of the division between so-called "groove" and "classic/original" Lindy Hoppers. The rhythm, arrangement, and feeling of the two are different enough that it is difficult to appreciate both as a dancer. If you rose to that difficulty and appreciate both, then kudos to you: you are an enlightened and wonderful person.

[yedancer]

What the hell are you talking about? Of course you can like dancing to both. Some people like vareity you know.

Um, yeah. I know plenty of people who like both, me included.

You seem to be quoting me out of context and completely misinterpreting what I wrote. I didn't say it was impossible or bad to appreciate both, just acknowledging a rather obvious point that is at the heart of the division between so-called "groove" and "classic/original" Lindy Hoppers. The rhythm, arrangement, and feeling of the two are different enough that it is difficult to appreciate both as a dancer. If you rose to that difficulty and appreciate both, then kudos to you: you are an enlightened and wonderful person.

You also seem to be misinterpreting what I wrote, either that, or not reading it.
Notice I said "plenty of people." I was serious. I know quite a few people who like both, not just me.

[D Nice]

right now, i'm working on charleston (20s, 30s) flavored pieces, which is woefully underplayed out here.

Out there? That 2/4 Swing/HotJazz music is woefully underplayed everywhere.

[D Nice]

As an aside, it's sad that such a great word has become so contentious. A jazz text i was reading recently stated that groove and swing are synonymous with good jazz.

Rayned this is a forum... check you damn logic in at the door before you post.

Seriousely... this is what happens when you have people using terms they don't understand, they become cluttered with a bunch of meaningless bagage and dilute the true meaning of the word.

Groove is a specific form of Jazz just like Swing. Like swing groove is also a term to describe something that is going on in music that falls outside of that genre. Swing music can groove, and Groove can swing.

The music modern lindy hoppers who have been cast into the "groove style" category is only partially groove (and not even the majority of it). Groove is a subgenre of Soul Jazz (which probably makes up about a third to about half of what these dancers dance to) and I've heard no more than three or four songs in any one venue that would solidly qualify as Groove.

Most of what I hear played for modern "groove" dancers is main stream jazz or swingin' blues in the KC and New Testament styles.

*shrug*

That said I play good music to dance to. I don't worry about when it was recorded or by who... can I comfortably swing out to it?