mosaic sets

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dogpossum · #61 Post by **dogpossum** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:40 pm

penguin wrote:But I'm also thinking about the Columbia and Okeh Benny Goodman set (1939-1958) the Lester Young/Count Basie Sessions (1936-1940) and the Django Reinhardt and Quintet of the Hot Club of France Set (1936-1948). I'd probably only get one of these though - any further thoughts from anyone of the merits/demerits of these sets?

The Mosaic catalogues are my weakness. I love them.

Are you looking for DJing/dancing or general listening?

I have the Young/Basie set and it's great. The one I use most, though, is the Chu Berry one - it has a really nice range of bands, which I find more useful for DJing and more interesting for listening, as it follows one musician through a range of bands.

The Mosaic packaging and booklets are really special. Mosaic also give really good service - the packages arrive promptly, well (and securely) packaged. That last bit is important, as I occasionally find stuff from the US gets a bit bashed around by the time it gets here.

If you're looking to binge on some specialist jazz, I'd recommend the little beat records stuff. Jesse recommended and sampled a bunch of songs on his show last year. I've been very, very happy with buying from LBR. The service is really good (the guy you email with is very helpful and nice), the packaging for the CDs is lovely (pity I don't read Danish, though

), the remastering is really good and the music is awesome. I've bought all the Swingstyrke 7 stuff (which I mentally classify as 'like new testament Basie'), Harlem Kiddies (excellently sprightly fun lindy hopping action from the 40s) and all the Leo Mathisen (kind of like a Danish Fats Waller) stuff.
I'd recommend all of them.

Actually, if anyone can recommend anything else like this, I'd be grateful - I like supporting smaller specialist companies like these that restore and produce really good quality music.

anton · #62 Post by **anton** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:13 am

AlekseyKosygin wrote:You forgot affordable. The Mosaics are WAYYY too expensive.

It is expensive to produce quality remasters from the original masters that sit in the big companies' vaults.

It is cheap to copy other labels' remasters.

If we want new quality remasters to reach the market, we must continue to support Mosaic records and other quality labels. In a way, we must pay for other people's sins (yeah, I feel like Jesus every time I buy a Mosaic box set)...

J-h:n · #63 Post by **J-h:n** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:13 pm

anton wrote:It is expensive to produce quality remasters from the original masters that sit in the big companies' vaults.

It is cheap to copy other labels' remasters.

This is very true. However, JSP also do their own remasterings. They used to have John R T Davies remastering for them; the Django set is done by his protégé Ted Kendall and is still very, very good. They don't have to pay licensing money like Mosaic since they're not in the US and not affected by US copyright laws, but they're not doing anything illegal. The bottom line, for me, is that they're adding real value to what they're selling, unlike some other labels I (and certainly you...) could mention.

I agree that Mosaic do a fantastic job and I'm all for supporting them - I own a number of Mosaic sets and would love to have more - but when there is a product of equivalent quality out there at a fraction of the price, you may want to spend your money on some of their other sets.

AlekseyKosygin · #64 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:09 pm

J-h:n wrote:
anton wrote:It is expensive to produce quality remasters from the original masters that sit in the big companies' vaults.

It is cheap to copy other labels' remasters.
This is very true. However, JSP also do their own remasterings. They used to have John R T Davies remastering for them; the Django set is done by his protégé Ted Kendall and is still very, very good. They don't have to pay licensing money like Mosaic since they're not in the US and not affected by US copyright laws, but they're not doing anything illegal. The bottom line, for me, is that they're adding real value to what they're selling, unlike some other labels I (and certainly you...) could mention.

I agree that Mosaic do a fantastic job and I'm all for supporting them - I own a number of Mosaic sets and would love to have more - but when there is a product of equivalent quality out there at a fraction of the price, you may want to spend your money on some of their other sets.

You really said it...and since John did and Ted does remastering for all types of European labels you often get just as much documentation as on a Mosaic set...plus almost everything Mosaic ever put out I already had on some other European label in some form or other...what Mosaic should try to do is remaster music that still has not been released on CD yet (and yes there is still a lot out there) however they probably don't think there is a market for that kind of semi-obscure material...

lipi · #65 Post by **lipi** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:14 pm

yes, they're expensive. that said:

AlekseyKosygin wrote: [...] since John did and Ted does remastering for all types of European labels you often get just as much documentation as on a Mosaic set

your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

...plus almost everything Mosaic ever put out I already had on some other European label in some form or other...

in your dreams.

in any case, even if you did, you did not have it remastered by john davies or ted kendall or at a similar level. it's simply not out there. (if you think it is, please point me to it. i'd like the edmond hall, sidney bechet blue note, complete commodore, art hodes, george lewis, roulette basie (live and studio), cbs eddie condon, columbia condon, blue note monk, and fifties teagarden, for starters.)

similarly, you did not have it with such complete liner notes.

as far as i can tell, of the cheaper labels, definitive, chrono, and jsp are the only ones that come close in completeness. jsp is the only one that has the same level of remastering. none of these have anywhere near the quality of liner notes. document/membran/whatever is random in its selections, and tends to have poor sound (when it's not a straight chrono re-release or rip).

frog has excellent sound and good notes (sans pictures), but has a much more limited selection, and is as expensive as mosaic is here in the states. (judging by online prices, it's a great deal cheaper in europe, though.)

are there others? i'd love to know about them.

what Mosaic should try to do is remaster music that still has not been released on CD yet (and yes there is still a lot out there) however they probably don't think there is a market for that kind of semi-obscure material...

yeah, well, there *isn't* a market out there for lots of the stuff we really like. it's hard for small labels that don't own their own masters.

J-h:n · #66 Post by **J-h:n** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:54 am

lipi wrote:are there others? i'd love to know about them.

Hep! Hep! (The jumpin' jive)

AlekseyKosygin · #67 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:20 am

lipi wrote:yes, they're expensive. that said:

AlekseyKosygin wrote: [...] since John did and Ted does remastering for all types of European labels you often get just as much documentation as on a Mosaic set

your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
What don't you understand about what I said?

...plus almost everything Mosaic ever put out I already had on some other European label in some form or other...

in your dreams.
hahaha...I must be dreaming then because I have all the music I want right here...

in any case, even if you did, you did not have it remastered by john davies or ted kendall or at a similar level. it's simply not out there. (if you think it is, please point me to it. i'd like the edmond hall, sidney bechet blue note, complete commodore, art hodes, george lewis, roulette basie (live and studio), cbs eddie condon, columbia condon, blue note monk, and fifties teagarden, for starters.)
Sorry but about half of the music you just listed is either undesireable to me or just kinda sucks...

Similarly, you did not have it with such complete liner notes.
For the stuff I want I do...

as far as i can tell, of the cheaper labels, definitive, chrono, and jsp are the only ones that come close in completeness. jsp is the only one that has the same level of remastering. none of these have anywhere near the quality of liner notes. document/membran/whatever is random in its selections, and tends to have poor sound (when it's not a straight chrono re-release or rip).

frog has excellent sound and good notes (sans pictures), but has a much more limited selection, and is as expensive as mosaic is here in the states. (judging by online prices, it's a great deal cheaper in europe, though.)
FROG has A LOT of stuff that Mosaic doesn't, especially stuff from the 20's which is the good sh*t...

are there others? i'd love to know about them.
As noted in the previous post, check out Hep, and you also forgot about Timeless, Retrieval and Jazz Oracle which are three other amazing labels that each deserve their own 5 page thread...

what Mosaic should try to do is remaster music that still has not been released on CD yet (and yes there is still a lot out there) however they probably don't think there is a market for that kind of semi-obscure material...

yeah, well, there *isn't* a market out there for lots of the stuff we really like. it's hard for small labels that don't own their own masters.

Well, there are small labels that ARE doing it, you just don't seem to know about it, in the meantime they are putting out the music I want to hear while saving me a ton of money CHA-CHING!

lipi · #68 Post by **lipi** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:30 pm

AlekseyKosygin wrote:
AlekseyKosygin wrote: [...] since John did and Ted does remastering for all types of European labels you often get just as much documentation as on a Mosaic set

your conclusion does not follow from your premise.
What don't you understand about what I said?

what you wrote is:

"since A, therefore B"

but the B does not follow from the A. it's like saying: "since my car is red, i really like jazz". the second does not follow from the first. the guy doing the remastering doesn't do the docs. there may be a correlation, but it's hardly a proven strong one.

...plus almost everything Mosaic ever put out I already had on some other European label in some form or other...

in your dreams.
hahaha...I must be dreaming then because I have all the music I want right here...

but now you're changing the tune: now it's "almost all the music *you want* and mosaic put out" instead of "all the music mosaic put out".

in any case, even if you did, you did not have it remastered by john davies or ted kendall or at a similar level. it's simply not out there. (if you think it is, please point me to it. i'd like the edmond hall, sidney bechet blue note, complete commodore, art hodes, george lewis, roulette basie (live and studio), cbs eddie condon, columbia condon, blue note monk, and fifties teagarden, for starters.)
Sorry but about half of the music you just listed is either undesireable to me or just kinda sucks...

that's fine, but then lay off the blanket statements.

As noted in the previous post, check out Hep, and you also forgot about Timeless, Retrieval and Jazz Oracle which are three other amazing labels that each deserve their own 5 page thread...

hep doesn't do complete releases, i think.

i have some timeless and retrieval, actually. it's true, they have some of the older stuff (but not the newer things that mosaic concentrates on--and i guess are not your bag).

i think this is more a matter of musical taste: you just don't like the stuff mosaic concentrates on that much. it's not that others have put out the same stuff cheaper and in the same quality.

*shrug* whatever.

AlekseyKosygin · #69 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:47 am

"what you wrote is:

"since A, therefore B"

but the B does not follow from the A. it's like saying: "since my car is red, i really like jazz". the second does not follow from the first. the guy doing the remastering doesn't do the docs. there may be a correlation, but it's hardly a proven strong one."

There is a correlation because these are quality labels who get quality restorationists to work on the material they want to release. Both John and Ted have also supplied documentation written by them along with releases although not all the time. I just don't want you to think that those 4 labels never supply or supply only a limited amount of documentation, the opposite is always the case.

If you look at those four labels total list of releases you will see that they speak a lot more to a swing dancer that loves melodic danceable Jazz as opposed to Mosaic's total list. Hey man, keep buying Mosaic, I'm glad that's working out for you, but until you know everything that the small European labels are putting out please don't make it sound like Mosaic is the best thing since sliced bread, because it's not.

J-h:n · #70 Post by **J-h:n** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:48 pm

Just got this in the Mosaic newsletter - sounds awesome:

Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions #244 (7 CDs) - $119

(not yet available for preorder- Release date: August, 2009)

The famed clarinetist, bandleader and author Artie Shaw was a driven individual whose vision to furnish music or literature became a never ending quest for perfection. "He was", as writer John McDonough examined, "a fascinating figure of sex appeal, charisma, and good looks...born media bait who could neither control nor escape the effects of his appeal".

Yet with all of his complex eccentricities, his perception of how his music should be played and the prodigious method of his fluid clarinet, captured the music world's ear and left us with a vast collection of hard-core swing and exquisite ballads. He knew what he wanted and his selection of dedicated sidemen made for some stirring recordings. At various times, his band included the cream of swing era musicians: Buddy Rich, Tony Pastor, Jack Jenney, Billy Butterfield, Georgie Auld, Hot Lips Page, Roy Eldridge, Dodo Marmarosa and Barney Kessel. His all-star team of arrangers included Ray Conniff, Jerry Gray, Lennie Hayton, Eddie Sauter and William Grant Still.

Barney Bigard, a staple of the Ellington band from 1927-1942 stated that Shaw made "...the clarinet sound unusually beautiful in the upper register. The guy could execute like mad...(and) I like Artie for the things that were almost impossible to do on the clarinet." His solo efforts were clean, clear and soaring with a strong and polished attack that was full of melodic invention. A weaving of ideas that perfectly connected one thought to another. A prime example of this would the Victor release of "Star Dust" which has been inducted in the Grammy Hall of Fame category and is considered to be one of the finest jazz solos captured on record.

Though not a complete work of everything Shaw recorded during the years 1938-1945, Mosaic Records has culled all of his instrumental big band and small group sides for the Bluebird and Victor labels in a 7 CD Limited Edition Box Set. A number of alternate takes are provided, rare photos and an updated Shaw discography are highlights but none greater than the liner notes which are provided by the much in demand author, Down Beat contributor and friend of Shaw, John McDonough, whose insights greatly enhance the listening landscape and further explore the Shaw psyche.

Haydn · #71 Post by **Haydn** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:33 pm

J-h:n wrote:Just got this in the Mosaic newsletter - sounds awesome:

Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions #244 (7 CDs) - $119

(not yet available for preorder- Release date: August, 2009)

all of his instrumental big band and small group sides for the Bluebird and Victor labels in a 7 CD Limited Edition Box Set

Sounds excellent, thanks for posting that

anton · #72 Post by **anton** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:08 am

Yes, the Shaw set looks like another very good one! I'm glad that they again focus on instrumentals and decided to skip the vocal dross (which accounts for a large share of his total output).

Btw, did anyone get the Armstrong set?

trev · #73 Post by **trev** » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:55 am

I got the Armstrong set and I think it's awesome.

I hardly had anything of his from this period (1935-46) and I was happy that there were lots of mid-tempo easy swinging numbers that should be great for general social dancing. Probably 10 -12 new (for me) tracks that I'd have no probs DJing straight away. That said, there's some soppy duets, some latin numbers, some uncomfortable "Uncle Tom" songs, a couple of spoken sermons (!) and it can all seem a bit formulaic: (Band > Louis sings > Louis plays > Finishes with high notes), but it's all swingin' and the sound quality is ace.

I like the Chu Berry and Lester Young sets better, but this is still fantastic.

anton · #74 Post by **anton** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:03 pm

J-h:n wrote: Classic Artie Shaw Bluebird And Victor Sessions #244 (7 CDs) - $119

Now available for pre-order! (and ordered...

)

http://www.mosaicrecords.com/prodinfo.a ... =244-MD-CD

anton · #75 Post by **anton** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:30 am

trev wrote:I got the Armstrong set and I think it's awesome.

Agreed. I got the set in July and have been listening to it constantly ever since.

One thing is slightly problematic for dancers though: some of the songs suffer from the vocals and trumpet being too prominent in the mix - and with Louis singing all over the beat it can be tricky for dancers to find the "1".

Here's what I picked out for dancing so far:

Louis Armstrong - Got A Bran' New Suit (alt) [1935] (185)
Louis Armstrong - I'm In The Mood For Love [1935] (120)
Louis Armstrong - I'm Shooting High [1935] (155)
Louis Armstrong - I've Got My Fingers Crossed [1935] (185)
Louis Armstrong - Old Man Mose [1935] (220)
Louis Armstrong - You Are My Lucky Star [1935] (135,195)
Louis Armstrong - The Music Goes 'Round And Around [1936] (160)
Louis Armstrong - Yes-Yes! My-My! (She's Mine) [1936] (170)
Louis Armstrong - Ev'ntide [1936] (115)
Louis Armstrong - I'm Puttin' All My Eggs In One Basket [1936] (145)
Louis Armstrong - Mahogany Hall Stomp [1936] (235)
Louis Armstrong - Swing That Music [1936] (330)
Louis Armstrong - Jubilee [1938] (210)
Louis Armstrong - Satchel Mouth Swing [1938] (180)
Louis Armstrong - Struttin' With Some Barbecue [1938] (215)
Louis Armstrong - Savoy Blues [1939] (105)
Louis Armstrong - If It's Good (Then I Want It) [1939] (190)
Louis Armstrong And The Mills Brothers - Boog-It [1940] (170)
Louis Armstrong - 2.19 Blues (Mamie's Blues) [1940] (90)
Louis Armstrong - Coal Cart Blues [1940] (130)
Louis Armstrong - Harlem Stomp [1940] (195)
Louis Armstrong - Hep Cat's Ball [1940] (145)
Louis Armstrong - Peridido Street Blues [1940] (145)
Louis Armstrong - Leap Frog [1941] (160)
Louis Armstrong - Groovin' [1944] (190)