When I get a laptop

It's all about the equipment

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J-h:n
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When I get a laptop

#1 Post by J-h:n » Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:31 pm

After much moaning and groaning I'm finally about to switch to laptop djing, but I haven't got the actual machine yet. I've already ripped a bunch of music to high quality mp3s using iTunes, putting in bpm and some comments - but not ratings, since those stay with iTunes. I would prefer not to use iTunes to dj from; I'm thinking about JRiver but want to keep my options open.

In iTunes, I have used the "grouping" field to mark the songs that I would consider for djing, so this goes into the actual MP3 tag. I can then make a playlist called "SwingDJ" in iTunes.

My iTunes library is rather large, and it's full of non-swing stuff. It's all organized the way iTunes organizes stuff, i e every artist in its own little subfolder.

Now, when I get a laptop, here's what I would like to do:

1. I would like to copy all the "SwingDJ" songs, and no others, to the laptop.

2. I would like to keep the collection on the laptop synchronized with the "SwingDJ" playlist on my desktop computer.

3. I still want iTunes to be able to find everything, so I can listen to the whole original albums on my iPod.

Can this be easily done?

I'm not used to managing music libraries on more than one machine, so I thought it best to ask well in advance to save myself unnecessary grief.

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Lawrence
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#2 Post by Lawrence » Sat Feb 09, 2008 6:11 pm

I don't know a way in ITunes to synchronize a playlist with you laptop.

However, to transfer the tunes in your SwingDJs playlist, call it up, select all the songs in the playlist, and you should be able to simply drag and drop the tunes from ITunes onto a portable USB hard drive, then transfer the contents of that drive to your laptop.
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Surreal
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Re: When I get a laptop

#3 Post by Surreal » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:09 pm

J-h:n wrote:In iTunes, I have used the "grouping" field to mark the songs that I would consider for djing, so this goes into the actual MP3 tag.
It does? I lost all my grouping info when I switched to jriver... or maybe it's because "grouping" isn't a standard field that other media players recognize?

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J-h:n
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Re: When I get a laptop

#4 Post by J-h:n » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:13 pm

Surreal wrote:
J-h:n wrote:In iTunes, I have used the "grouping" field to mark the songs that I would consider for djing, so this goes into the actual MP3 tag.
It does? I lost all my grouping info when I switched to jriver... or maybe it's because "grouping" isn't a standard field that other media players recognize?
Yep. Mine's still there. I can see it in the tag, where it's called "TT1 (Content group desc.)" However, it seems like you can't search for it in JRiver - strange, since you can search for practically anything in that program. You can always use a tag editor to put that info somewhere else, like in the comment field.

Then again, it seems like there is some info that iTunes will only put in the actual MP3 tag if you enter it BEFORE you import it. I'm not at all sure how this works, but of course, if it doesn't go into the tag it won't travel when you switch programs.

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#5 Post by J-h:n » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:46 pm

Lawrence wrote:I don't know a way in ITunes to synchronize a playlist with you laptop.

However, to transfer the tunes in your SwingDJs playlist, call it up, select all the songs in the playlist, and you should be able to simply drag and drop the tunes from ITunes onto a portable USB hard drive, then transfer the contents of that drive to your laptop.
Yes, that would be a start. Or I guess I could create a folder called "SwingDJ" on the desktop, move everything on the playlist there and then copy the whole folder onto the laptop.

If I do so, are there easy ways to

1. synchronize the playlist with the SwingDJ folder, so that when I get new music the songs marked "SwingDJ" go into that folder and the others do not? Or will I have to do that manually every time I rip a new CD?

2. synchronize the SwingDJ folder on the desktop with the collection on the laptop, so that all changes done in one place will take effect in the other? Can JRiver do this? Or do I need a third program?

Oh, and is there anything I'd have to think about to prevent iTunes from moving everything back into folders of its own choice?

If I had started from scratch, I guess I woundn't have bothered with iTunes at all. But like many others, I began using it because it was free and convenient. At least, I had the sense - thanks to this board - not to use the AAC encoding.

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#6 Post by Nate Dogg » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:25 pm

This is what I do.

I copy all the songs I actual might play in a single folder called Swing DJ. Not the full albums, just the songs. No subfolders. The complete albums are fully intact elsewhere. The "Swing DJ" folder exists on both the laptop I use for DJing and my "home" PC.

When I add songs, change tags, etc... I do it on my home PC. On a regular basis, I copy all files that have been modified recently to the laptop (not the whole file, just songs with a recent modified date). No need for a special program to synchronize, I just sort the SwingDJ folder by the mod date, copy and paste the files, this overwrites earlier versions on the laptop. This also adds new tracks that I have added, since they will have a modified date that is recent as well.

On a periodic basis, I delete my library and reload it in WinAmp (you can do the same in iTunes), that removes any obsolete files that may not exist due to filename changes, etc...

As for the subfolder issue, I imagine you need to find the option in iTunes that suppresses the creation of subfolders, others have alluded to that setting exists on this board. I don't use iTunes in that manner, so I don't know how to do it.

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#7 Post by J-h:n » Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:01 am

Nate: Thanks! That seems like a simple and straightforward solution. I think I'll try something similar.

Perhaps it would be best to create a SwingDJ folder entirely separate from the iTunes library, copy relevant songs there and then never let iTunes near that folder, but do all further editing either with JRiver or a tag editor. I guess this would mean storing double copies of the MP3s on the desktop, but that's no big problem. And if I store them on an external drive, it will even provide backup of a sort - always a good thing.

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#8 Post by J-h:n » Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:45 pm

And hey! By doing a little bit of thinking myself I realized that I can use a similar method to add updates in a iTunes playlist to an external folder. Just make a smart playlist with the added condition of a recent modified date, then copy and paste from the playlist and presto. No need to do it every time you add something new. Amazingly simple once you think about it.

I guess this is all really basic for those of you who have been doing it for a long time, but when you're new to it you have to figure out all these simple little tricks for yourself. And I'm sure there are people who are afraid to ask because they don't want to sound stupid, so perhaps they can learn something by reading this. I certainly have learned a lot from reading "stupid" questions about basic stuff on this board.

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#9 Post by aklamo » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:24 am

The only problem with that solution is that it won't keep your ratings, bpm or comments, because that data isn't written to the mp3 file, but rather to the itunes library and .xml files.

There's no easy way to do this while maintaining all your meta-data, but it's possible. The complicated solution includes a number of things, namely:

a) keeping your entire collection of music on an external drive (and keeping a copy of only a portion of that entire collection -- the Swing DJ stuff -- on your laptop)

b) updating by learning how to export the itunes xml file and reimport it to the laptop, thereby copying all the new music to your itunes library on your laptop via the external hard drive

c) making backups

It's also useful to note that you can use multiple libraries within itunes, by holding down the shift key on a windows machine and the option key on a mac.

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#10 Post by lipi » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:08 pm

aklamo wrote:The only problem with that solution is that it won't keep your ratings, bpm or comments, because that data isn't written to the mp3 file, but rather to the itunes library and .xml files.
actually, both the comment and the bpm field are written to the individual music files (mp3, aac, ...). if you re-import the file in an itunes library, you'll see both. (or, if you open the file in a text editor, you can search for the strings you entered.) the rating field is, indeed, not written to the individual files. (this is easy to check with diff.)

if you have trouble seeing ceratin fields in non-itunes players, you may want to play a little with the advanced -> convert id3 tag... menu option. if certain fields don't import into jriver (or whatever you're using) it's possible that the character encoding is different on the failing fields.

it's also possible the fields are named something else, in which case you can write a little script that will "fix" them for you.

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#11 Post by J-h:n » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:06 pm

lipi wrote:actually, both the comment and the bpm field are written to the individual music files (mp3, aac, ...). if you re-import the file in an itunes library, you'll see both. (or, if you open the file in a text editor, you can search for the strings you entered.) the rating field is, indeed, not written to the individual files. (this is easy to check with diff.)
Yes, that's how it seems to me. All metadata that's been entered in iTunes can be seen both in JRiver and in MP3Tag. (Not ratings, as you say, but I knew that already and so haven't used them.) And it doesn't matter if I move the file from the iTunes music folder, either.

I thought that perhaps it made a difference at which point you entered the metadata - Lawrence mentioned as much in another thread - but comments made in iTunes after the song has been ripped and imported will travel fine as well. Perhaps earlier versions of iTunes were more proprietary in this regard?

But see, this is exactly why I started this thread in the first place - please correct me if I'm wrong. I would hate to copy thousands and thousands of songs onto the laptop only to find that oops, can't see the BPM:s, or something.

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#12 Post by Surreal » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:20 am

I recently moved my library over to jriver after using itunes for about two years (I'm on a pc). I found that a lot of the tags from the music I added way in the beginning did not transfer (missing BPM, comments, etc.), but songs added later on kept everything properly in the tags.

My guess is that itunes used to store all metadata locally, and only in more recent versions (say the last year and half or so?) did they start storing more data in the id3 tags.

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#13 Post by straycat » Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:01 am

J-h:n wrote: But see, this is exactly why I started this thread in the first place - please correct me if I'm wrong. I would hate to copy thousands and thousands of songs onto the laptop only to find that oops, can't see the BPM:s, or something.
I do something similar to what you want to do - sort all my music on my desktop machine, and DJ off a laptop (and sometimes off CDs) BPMs and categorisation do (generally) transfer with no problems - I set those in iTunes, and I they (almost) always transfer fine to Megaseg, which is what I use on the laptop. Very occasionally, a BPM comes up as zero, and I've not identified whether this is user error or a software issue, but it's infrequent enough that there's no problem recalcing it in Megaseg without much lost time.

The system I use nowadays is to keep a collection of CD-length playlists in iTunes on my desktop machine, one set for blues, one set for swing. As I identify and tag new tracks, each one that I deem suitable for dancing, I'll add to the latest relevant playlist. When a playlist gets to 1.2 hours, I mark it complete, burn the CD to add to my collection, start a new list, and transfer the complete one to the laptop, importing it to Megaseg and into iTunes.

I could go for the monolithic folder approach, and I almost certainly would, if it weren't for the fact that I still like to work from CDs from time to time. The current method gets me the best of both worlds with a minimum of hassle.

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#14 Post by J-h:n » Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:22 pm

straycat wrote:The system I use nowadays is to keep a collection of CD-length playlists in iTunes on my desktop machine, one set for blues, one set for swing. As I identify and tag new tracks, each one that I deem suitable for dancing, I'll add to the latest relevant playlist. When a playlist gets to 1.2 hours, I mark it complete, burn the CD to add to my collection, start a new list, and transfer the complete one to the laptop, importing it to Megaseg and into iTunes.
Sounds good, although I don't think it's for me - my main reason for switching is that the 200 CD binder is long since full, and I don't like carrying more than one, so I have to get rid of one CD for each new one I add. And I find that too many random compilations make the collection awfully hard to survey.

Apart from that, I like DJing from CDs. I'm very comfortable with it. Perhaps too comfortable.

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#15 Post by J-h:n » Sun May 11, 2008 11:20 am

Time for a little update.

I've discovered one slight but annoying problem with copying large quantities of music from iTunes to somewhere else.

What iTunes does is creating subfolders for each album you rip, so you get search paths that look something like this:

C:\Documents and settings\Johan\My documents\My music\iTunes\iTunes Music\Count Basie\Breakfast Dance and Barbecue\18 One O'Clock Jump.mp3

The actual name of the file is simply "18 One O'Clock Jump.mp3". Now, if you have enough music you will inevitably find that you also have, say:

C:\Documents and settings\Johan\My documents\My music\iTunes\iTunes Music\Benny Goodman\Sing, Sing, Sing\18 One O'Clock Jump.mp3

Yes, this file is also actually called "18 One O'Clock Jump.mp3". No problem as long as the songs stay in iTunes, since they're in separate places. But if I try to copy them both into a single external folder, my computer (or rather Windows XP) can't tell the difference between them and so asks me if I want to replace the first with the second. I can answer yes or no, but only one file will be copied. I've found no way of changing the name of the other file at this point.

What I've done is, I've made a note of the file that didn't get copied, gone back into iTunes, found the song and changed its name to "One O'Clock Jump_.mp3". This is not ideal (especially after you run into the third or fourth "18 One O'Clock Jump.mp3"). Does anyone have a better solution?

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