Syllabus for Swing DJ Training

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Lawrence
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#31 Post by Lawrence » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:02 am

julius wrote:
Lawrence wrote: In a flippant act of defiance, I intentionally flaunted the "rules" for a few months thereafter to test the issue and show just how successful a set could be while blatantly flaunting the rules, until some friends convinced me to just continue to simply ignore the guidelines instead of intentionally trying to push the issue. Of course, they were right and the "rules" have faded back into obscurity where they belong. But they are still there to be abused, again.
I'm not trying to tweak you here, honest, but how do you reconcile this paragraph with 'give the DJ's employer what the employer wants', an attitude you have espoused in other threads?
Yes, the first sentence does seem inconsistent, but I admitted even in that quote that the rebellious flaunting was an inappropriate, flippant reaction. Moreover, I WAS playing to the crowd the entire time, even in the initial set that kicked off the furor.

Also, the DJ coordinator who took the single complaint at face value was not even at the dance, and, again, the complaint was aggravated by his enforcing "rules" without even being there. The point was not to undermine the goal of the venue/employer; it was to mock the rules that someone no longer involved had quickly and inartfully drafted years before.
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#32 Post by julius » Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:20 pm

Campus Five wrote:
julius wrote:This is a way-out-of-left-field suggestion, but I think it would be cool if a syllabus for swing DJs could include talking to swing musicians to hear their take on music and playing for dancers.
You assume that jazz musicians have any more idea about playing for dancers than DJ's do. Most don't know the first thing about playing for dancers. Maybe they would have if it were 1939.... Not anymore.
I said swing musicians, not jazz musicians!

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#33 Post by pompommono » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:28 pm

I found this book at Barns & Noble titled How to DJ Right: The Art and Science of Playing Records by 2 British DJs. It's mostly about DJing at regular clubs, but I found the philosophy is the same.

There's a section in the book titled "the dancefloor" where they talked about how to read the crowd, pace the night, come on after another DJ and other topics. I find it really informative and useful!!!

The book also cover some general equipment topics which is really helpful for me too.

Here's a link of the book on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0802139957

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#34 Post by Nate Dogg » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:54 pm

The rules that Lawrence was complaining about. Circa, summer of 2004.

Lawrence, whether he wants to admit it, follows most of them. Some DJs lacked common sense, so guidelines had to be written down (show up on time, don't play long songs, don't play too much novelty, do the traditional birthday jam at 10:30 so people can know what to expect, etc..).

In reality, only some of the DJs actually realize the guidelines exist. But, DJs are generally compliant. The most common "violation" these days is when DJs play more advanced tunes when our beginner lesson let out at 9:30. Play that stuff later.

Being a non-profit, democratic organization, no individual can just unilaterally fire a DJ. There is no single person in charge like other organizations and venues. The only reason the rules were drafted was because certain DJs were getting complaints and the Board had to take action in a fair manner. Eventually, one of DJs actually got suspended, and ended up never DJing in Austin again.

Nathan

Here are the guidelines for the djs.

The length of the Thursday Night DeeJay Shifts has been changed:
First Shift: 8:00 - 10:00 p.m..
Second Shift: 10:00 - 11:00 p.m..
Third Shift: 11:00 p.m. - Midnight.
These shift changes will be in effect starting on April 24
(when the new rotation of deejay shifts begins).

When a live band plays on Thursday nights, the deejay rotation will
be adjusted as follows:
1. When we know in advance (before a new deejay rotation is
announced) the date for the live band, the deejay rotation will skip
on that week.
2. When we do not have enough advance warning of the date for a live
band, the deejays for that night will be bumped and given a make-up
shift at the end of that rotation. FOR EXAMPLE, the rotation
beginning on April 24 is announced today, but next week we find out
there will be a live band on May 22nd, the deejays for May 22nd will
be given a make-up shift on the Thursday after the rotation finishes
in early June.
3. The chair of the music committee will appoint deejays to work
with the bands. This will be done on a rotation.

Training methods for a new deejay.
A member of the music committee will sit as a mentor with the new
deejay during his or her first two sets at the Fed.

Duties of the Deejays include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. Keep most of the people dancing in the ballroom.
2. Pay attention to the crowd throughout your assigned set. Pleasing
them is more important than educating them. Deejays are advised to
not get too lost on the headphones and to not be dependent upon a
pre-arranged set list.

Playlist Suggestions for the deejays.
1. From 9:30 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., the deejay must play songs that are
suitable for East Coast Swing (6-count swing). The 8:00 p.m. to 10:00
p.m. deejay cannot close his shift by playing a song that he might
play if he or she were signing off at midnight. The 8:00 p.m. to 10:00
p.m. deejay must remember there is another deejay following him or
her, that there needs to be continuity to the 10 - 11 p.m. set, and
that the deejay's prime directive is to take care of the needs of
the dancers.
2. A deejay on any set should work to keep the right variety in his
or her set. Variety that is desirable is to move between blues (that
swings), jazz, or neo-swing, big bands and small combos, fast,
medium and slower tempos. Variety that is not desirable is to
include more than one or two novelty songs (defined as rhythm and
blues, hip-hop, zydeco, tango, country-western) per hour of music.
3. A deejay should not play more than two 6-minute-long, or longer,
songs during any one shift.

Request Policy.
The Syndicate deejays are encouraged to take requests. However, a
deejay is not obligated to take a request. Scenarios where a deejay
may elect to decline a request include, but are not limited to, the
following:
1. The music on the request is not swing, blues or jazz, or it can
be classified as a novelty song;
2. The request is made in the last 10 minutes of the deejay's set; or
3. When the request is on a CD that is not in the Deejay's
collection.

Birthday (and special event) Dances.
There will be one per night. It will take place during the 10 p.m. to
11 p.m. shift. Only in an exceptional circumstance can there be a
second Birthday (and special event) dance on any one night; and then
the deejay should try to consult with the Staffing Coordinator or a
member of the Music Committee before doing so.

DeeJay Compensation.
<Not posted, since it is out of date>

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#35 Post by Surreal » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:27 am

Nate Dogg wrote:2. Pay attention to the crowd throughout your assigned set. Pleasing them is more important than educating them. Deejays are advised to not get too lost on the headphones and to not be dependent upon a pre-arranged set list.
QFT

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#36 Post by fredo » Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:47 am

Nate Dogg wrote:Playlist Suggestions for the deejays.
1. From 9:30 p.m. to 10:00 p.m., the deejay must play songs that are
suitable for East Coast Swing (6-count swing).
this is funny to me, as are many of the things written in this "rules" list.

I wonder if anyone from the board who wrote this could help illuminate the thread regarding music "suitable for East Coast Swing (6-count swing)"... whatever that is :lol:

It's interesting that a non-profit swing organization would pass restrictions that pander to one group of its members over another.

Out of curiosity, are there non-Syndicate run dance nights in Austin?

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#37 Post by Lawrence » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:47 pm

Nate Dogg wrote: 2. A deejay on any set should work to [not "must"] keep the right variety in his or her set. Variety that is desirable is to move between blues (that swings), jazz, or neo-swing, big bands and small combos, fast, medium and slower tempos. Variety that is not desirable is to include more than one or two novelty songs (defined as rhythm and blues, hip-hop, zydeco, tango, country-western) per hour of music.
I forgot how bad it was, partly because I just intentionally ignore them on principle, but this language of the rule for which I got a "ticket" highlights the ambiguity problem.

First, the "rule" that was attempted to be enforced upon me is not a "rule" but just something we kinda, sorta, shoulda think of doin... if we want. It is not phrased as summarized to me, which was "you are prohibited from playing more than 2 non-swing songs per set."

Second, it is completely ambiguous as to what constitutes undesireable "novelty" music. Just the "Rhythm and Blues" term, alone is a HUGE bag of worms. That terms alone encompasses 1940s Jump Blues (e.g. the OKeh Rhythm and Blues collection), Soul music, modern, Babyface-style pop music, and modern Jamie Foxx-style pseudo rap music. Is 1940s jump Blues undesireable?!?!?! And what is "Country," what is Zydeco?

And I guess I can play as many rock and roll songs as I want, because its not even mentioned in the definition of "novelty."

They are well-intentioned, and they contain many good ideas, yes. But in the end, they are rather bad as "rules." As I told Nathan long ago, it was a misguided, passive-aggressive solution to the one or two "problem" DJs that we had at the time. Nobody had the guts to just talk to them about it.
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#38 Post by djstarr » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:34 pm

thanks for cheering me up today! They are fairly common sense but when written out like that are pretty damn funny.

As far as this section is concerned, I need some advice:
Request Policy.
The Syndicate deejays are encouraged to take requests. However, a
deejay is not obligated to take a request. Scenarios where a deejay
may elect to decline a request include, but are not limited to, the
following:
1. The music on the request is not swing, blues or jazz, or it can
be classified as a novelty song;
2. The request is made in the last 10 minutes of the deejay's set; or
3. When the request is on a CD that is not in the Deejay's
collection.
Does Fever count as a swing, blues or jazz song? I have one venue where the same person requests Fever every time I DJ. So far I have honored her request since I have a couple versions I don't mind playing, but next time I think I will turn her down.

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#39 Post by Nate Dogg » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:09 pm

I will provide some context.

We have a free dance lesson, meant for people who have never danced before, they are taught a few basic lesson steps. The same basic lesson rotates every week, various teachers from all the teaching groups in town rotate and teach the lessons. The students don't learn swingouts. The learn very basic stuff. The purpose of the lessons are to give the brand new dancers the most basic knowledge so they won't feel totally bewildered on the social dance floor. The lesson can have as many of 50 or 60 new dancers on certain weeks. Our dances average 100-200 people every Thursday.

The idea is that the music played for the first 30 minutes or so when they walk out of the room be beginner friendly. The lesson runs from 8:15 to 9:15, the bulk of the more experienced dancers start showing up between 9 and 10. The dances run from 8PM to midnight. There is a lot of time for a lot of variety in music. We have three DJs a night.

The music should somewhat match the music in the lesson, at least be in the ballpark. In other words, the DJ should be aware of all the new dancers in the room and cater to them for 5 or 6 songs.

Nathan

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#40 Post by Nate Dogg » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:19 pm

djstarr wrote:thanks for cheering me up today! ....
Does Fever count as a swing, blues or jazz song? I have one venue where the same person requests Fever every time I DJ. So far I have honored her request since I have a couple versions I don't mind playing, but next time I think I will turn her down.
If you were a Syndicate DJ and you actually read the guidelines and wanted to follow them. A scenario that does not really exist in the real world, but we can assume.

The key line is that a DJ is not obligated to take a request. If you don't want to play, Fever, you don't have to. Just say you will try to fit in or just tell them you forgot it. The non-swing reason is to give people an easy out when people request salsa songs and the like. It happens.

Debating whether "Fever" swings or not misses the point. Lawrence, while he complains about the guidelines, actually follows them as closely as anybody else.

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#41 Post by Nate Dogg » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:26 pm

Lawrence wrote: I forgot how bad it was, partly because I just intentionally ignore them on principle, but this language of the rule for which I got a "ticket" highlights the ambiguity problem.
I can't remember which week you got a ticket.

I remember one night you played a bunch of hip hop. I DJed after you and had to deal with all the hip hop requests (they would say, the last DJ played Eminem, why can't you play 50 Cent). I probably supported you getting a ticket that night.

The DJ that got suspended, played salsa songs, followed by cha-chas, a few songs later he would a tango, with mediocre swing music mixed it. He did this after being warned on multiple occasions. It was not the really specific distinctions that you refer to. The idea is that we are holding a swing and lindy hop dance; not a variety, west coast, ballroom, county, salsa, hip hop, whatever dance.
Last edited by Nate Dogg on Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#42 Post by Nate Dogg » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:44 pm

fredo wrote: I wonder if anyone from the board who wrote this could help illuminate the thread regarding music "suitable for East Coast Swing (6-count swing)"... whatever that is :lol:
step-step rock step or triple step, triple step rock step. Different teachers and regions use different terminology. The local DJs knew what was meant and it was clear to them. Heck, some of the DJs are on the intro lesson rotation.
fredo wrote: It's interesting that a non-profit swing organization would pass restrictions that pander to one group of its members over another. Out of curiosity, are there non-Syndicate run dance nights in Austin?
"Pander" is loaded word. DJs while being members, are also volunteers with a specific task. The members elect a Board (composed of members) each year who run the Syndicate on behalf of the members. The DJ guidelines were approved by the Board. The President also appoints DJ Coordinator(s) to oversee the DJs from a logistics standpoint and to mentor and help DJs with quality issues.

Fredo, you would have a great time at a Syndicate dance. There are other venues. But, the people who run those venues are members of the Board, and they teach, DJ and volunteer for the Syndicate as well. As far a dance scenes go, the Austin scene has very little division, everybody goes to everybody else's venues and most everybody goes to the Thursday night Syndicate dances.

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#43 Post by fredo » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:21 am

step-step rock step or triple step, triple step rock step
thanks. I think I've seen this dance before... :roll:

I was commenting on the fact that Eyeball started a thread asking what, if anything, can be considered ECS music. I feel like that is something that is difficult to define considering 6-count is a completely contrived dance.

As for my comments about the rules pandering to one faction over another, I wasn't referring to the dancers vs. the DJs....think about the preference to beginners (with the elusive ECS music requirement) over the desires of the regulars who already know how to dance. Considering the lesson is a free drop-in, I find it odd that they should be treated with special consideration. Granted, most beginner-friendly music can be enjoyed by all, but to assume that drop-in beginners are more valuable than your regulars (and going as far as making a rule about it) just seems silly to me.

I've been to the Fed, several times, when I lived in Texas. I had a good time.

I miss Whitey.

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#44 Post by JesseMiner » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:41 am

fredo wrote:
step-step rock step or triple step, triple step rock step
Considering the lesson is a free drop-in, I find it odd that they should be treated with special consideration. Granted, most beginner-friendly music can be enjoyed by all, but to assume that drop-in beginners are more valuable than your regulars (and going as far as making a rule about it) just seems silly to me.
Really? It is fairly standard practice at just about every dance I have ever DJed at that the DJ follows the lesson at the starting of the night with music that will be very friendly to the group of people the lesson catered to, and yes that is often some group of beginning dancers (ECS, Lindy Hop, Charleston, you name it).

At the 9:20 Special here in San Francisco, we make sure to play slower swinging material (in the 120 - 150 bpm range) for the first half hour allowing those beginning Lindy Hop dancers who are fresh out of the lesson some time to to feel comfortable practicing what they just learned.

Jesse

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#45 Post by CafeSavoy » Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:23 am

JesseMiner wrote:
fredo wrote:
step-step rock step or triple step, triple step rock step
Considering the lesson is a free drop-in, I find it odd that they should be treated with special consideration. Granted, most beginner-friendly music can be enjoyed by all, but to assume that drop-in beginners are more valuable than your regulars (and going as far as making a rule about it) just seems silly to me.
Really? It is fairly standard practice at just about every dance I have ever DJed at that the DJ follows the lesson at the starting of the night with music that will be very friendly to the group of people the lesson catered to, and yes that is often some group of beginning dancers (ECS, Lindy Hop, Charleston, you name it).

At the 9:20 Special here in San Francisco, we make sure to play slower swinging material (in the 120 - 150 bpm range) for the first half hour allowing those beginning Lindy Hop dancers who are fresh out of the lesson some time to to feel comfortable practicing what they just learned.

Jesse
Exactly. I think it's also called growing your base.

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