Keep Punchin

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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Kyle
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Keep Punchin

#1 Post by Kyle » Tue Aug 17, 2004 8:07 am

I'm sure this has been answered somewhere sometime. What was the song that was used for the movie Keep Punchin and who was that band? Was the band who played the song actually the one on stage? or was is dubbed in?

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Zot
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#2 Post by Zot » Tue Aug 17, 2004 7:31 pm

Nobody seems to know.

I can tell you that an Australian band by the name of JW Swing Orchestra has now transcribed the track at the request of Crazy Rhythm Review (our Lindy Hop troupe) and played it for the first time on August the 7th! It was fantastic to hear live, and bandleader John Wanner is phenomenal at transcribing these gems.

For the record, we performed the Big Apple in its entirety for the first time with them. :D

Maybe he'll release a recording of it on an album in the future -- I hope so.
"Take the worst of neo-swing and put it together with Glen Miller. The man thinks the Count is someone from a horror flick. Take pity on him and let him play two or three tunes. But be sure you have some errands to run." -- Bill Borgida

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nightowl
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#3 Post by nightowl » Wed Aug 18, 2004 11:49 am

IMBD says this:

Original Music by
Bob Cole (song) (as Cole)
Herbert Goodwin (song)
Rosamond Johnson (songs) (as J. Rosamond Johnson)
Lee Norman
James Weldon (song)


But most of these people seem to be classical musicians...

I asked Frankie about it, he says he doesn't remember.

This is from Savoy Style.com:
"The Big Apple routine in this film clip, however, was originally choreographed by Manning and prepared for performance by Whitey's Lindy Hoppers on a 1938-39 tour of Australia and New Zealand as part of a traveling Broadway show called "Hollywood Hotel Review." The "Big Apple Dancers", as they were called in the playbill, were an enormous success in Australia and New Zealand, receiving great acclaim in the press and apparently winning the hearts of the Australian people. "


A couple of other tidbits I got from Frankie: He says they were pulled right from rehersal into the filming, and didn't even have time to change clothes.

He also said that a very common song to use for the Big Apple was Christopher Columbus.

I don't know if any of this helps, but it is rather mysterous. The band reminds me of Jimmie Lunceford for some reason. In fact the song sounds a little like a fast version of Harlem Shout maybe... but I could be way off base.

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Solomon
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#4 Post by Solomon » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:28 pm

Has anyone made any headway in answering this question?

I'm going to hazard to guess that the song is written by Lee Norman, because he is credited in IMDb as "Composer" , as "Musical Director", and as "Himself (the bandleader)". The other four individuals with composer credits on that film wrote particular songs, presumably performed by singers in the film.

Finding the details and publisher of the song are of immediate interest to me right now because I'm intending to include it on a CD that I'm recording with my ten-piece orchestra later this year. If I can't find out who owns the song then I can't pay royalties, which means I can't release it. That would be a bummer!

IMDb lists the copyright holder on the film as "M.C. Pictures, Inc." Does anyone know how I would go about finding contact info for such a company?

Solomon

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Solomon
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#5 Post by Solomon » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:35 pm

Oh, and yes, the band does sound like they're ripping of Jimmie Lunceford, and Basie too I'd say. It's full of really cliché swing-era horn riffs. And the song is reminisincent of Harlem Shout, being written on the same chord changes (that is, "I Got Rhythm" changes, just like "Lester Leaps In" or "Cottontail"). I think it's just an original song that was whipped together for the movie so that they studio wouldn't have to pay royalties (which ironically is what I'm now trying to do...)

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Mr Awesomer
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#6 Post by Mr Awesomer » Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:46 pm

Solomon wrote:I'm going to hazard to guess that the song is written by Lee Norman, because he is credited in IMDb as "Composer" , as "Musical Director", and as "Himself (the bandleader)". The other four individuals with composer credits on that film wrote particular songs, presumably performed by singers in the film.
The original movie poster also reads "Lee Norman's Orch."

Willie Bryant was also in the movie. I wonder if he had any play in the music as well.
Reuben Brown
Southern California

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Solomon
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#7 Post by Solomon » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:35 pm

Here's what Judy P. e-mailed me today:
Wow! You really do have a problem. I think it is going to take some detective work of a high order.

Frankie definitely doesn't know the name of the song and doesn't recognize Lee Norman or anyone else in the orchestra. Which is saying something -- probably that they weren't usually New York based.

I checked a book I have on African American film but don't get any other information. (I suspect that it is a typo that music score says "Lee Norman Cole" combining him with the Bob Cole, composer or N. Dean Cole, the sound engineer.) This particular book, by Larry Richards, is over 10 years old and I think more up-to-date books may have better information. I think you could take the problem to ASCAP directly, as they may have other ways of researching things. Since "Lee Norman" also has a trio in Boarding House Blues (1948) it might be easier to track him through that later film. Also ASCAP may have a way of dealing with this -- some general fund, nominal fee, etc.

In all fairness, Frankie never danced to that number before or since (unless he's danced to your band) so I am not sure it is real historically important.The Big Apple was done to all sorts of music including the ever-popular Christopher Columbus.

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Mr Awesomer
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#8 Post by Mr Awesomer » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:56 pm

In all fairness, Frankie never danced to that number before or since (unless he's danced to your band) so I am not sure it is real historically important.
I wonder if she realizes how such a statement comes off.
Reuben Brown
Southern California

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Solomon
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#9 Post by Solomon » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:11 pm

I think she means that because the song was just used once, and the routine was not choreographed to that song, and was never danced to that song (except for this one time), it doesn't seem like an important part of history.

I disagree of course... Even if that song just happened to be "in the right place at the right time", and even if it's really a pretty boring song, it has secured itself an important place in our history and it's worth preserving and worth using. That's what I think.

I don't think she meant that because it's not important to Frankie it shouldn't be important to anyone else in the world, if that's what you're implying.

Solomon

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kitkat
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#10 Post by kitkat » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:27 pm

Weighing in: I don't think it's a boring song at all. Maybe from a player's perspective it is (chord changes, arrangements, etc.). However, as a dancer I'll say that it would have me jumping up and down, kicking all around if a band played it or a DJ played a high-energy version of it with reasonable sound quality.

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Solomon
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#11 Post by Solomon » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:49 am

Well I agree with you... I was speaking from an artistic perspective. The song is like a shout chorus from start to finish. Most good swing songs, even the really hot high-energy ones, seem to have some kind of a dramatic arc to them, don't they? But this one starts at maximum intensity and stays there until the very end. That's what I think is boring about it. Oh, and the fact that the sax riffs are all unison riffs, and in general the riffs are very repetitive - more so than the riffs in any great flag-waver by any name band from the era, I think.

But yes you're right - I think for the purpose of dancing the Big Apple it's the ideal song... that's why I want to record it!

By the way, if anyone reading this hasn't seen the clip, you can download it from here.

Solomon

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Bob the Builder
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#12 Post by Bob the Builder » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:49 am

A local band out here in Melbourne plays it and have recorded it. They just haven't released the Cd yet. (JW swing Orchestra)

Brian
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Solomon
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#13 Post by Solomon » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:34 am

That's pretty cool. What are the title and composer's name that they use for the song?

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Eyeball
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#14 Post by Eyeball » Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:18 am

I have seen major record companies issue tunes where they could not find the composer credits for. They simply issued the song knowing fairly wellthat no one was going to come after them....mega-decades after the fact.

Reference - "Harlem Chapel Bells" - broadcast by Glenn Miller, issued by RCA and listed as 'composer unknown'.

Yoo are probably quite safe.
Last edited by Eyeball on Wed Nov 15, 2006 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kitkat
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#15 Post by kitkat » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:36 am

Solomon wrote:Oh, and the fact that the sax riffs are all unison riffs, and in general the riffs are very repetitive - more so than the riffs in any great flag-waver by any name band from the era, I think.
Hmmm. In high quality, that might sound annoyingly late 40's / white big band / new testament Basie in its timbre, which isn't at all how it comes across in the video.

Could you break it up into some more call & response or fewer musicians if it records that way?

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