PC to bakelite radio?

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trev
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PC to bakelite radio?

#1 Post by trev » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:23 pm

I was thinking it could be fun to get hold of an old art deco [tube?] radio and somehow hook it up to receive the audio from a PC (from iTunes etc).

Has anyone tried this? I don't know much about this sort of thing. Can you get AM transmitters for PCs, or would it be easier to hardwire it?
Last edited by trev on Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lipi
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#2 Post by lipi » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:37 am

oh lord. why do you want to do this? it's not like the amp in a tube radio is gonna be anything great. is it just because the case looks cool?

mr. jalopy has converted an old radio/record player into an itunes server. he gutted the thing and built it back up with modern bits, including an lcd and mac mini.

if you really want to fiddle with am, you can try one of these things. i've not played with one, but am skeptical about quality.

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LindyChef
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#3 Post by LindyChef » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:20 am

Because old radios have value and, yeah, a tech project like that is cool, but all you get is a case. And to be honest, putting new electronics in to play old music just doesn't make sense. I have a family heirloom Zenith console radio that I occasionally play music out of using a tube AM transmitter. LowFi recordings pre-50's sound fantastic ouf of it. Tube electronics match the music perfectly ... hell, even Glenn Miller sounds good out of it.

Tube transmitter kits are cheap and a fun couple of hour project over a weekend.

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trev
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#4 Post by trev » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:31 am

lipi wrote:oh lord. why do you want to do this? it's not like the amp in a tube radio is gonna be anything great. is it just because the case looks cool?
a) because I've always wanted a cool art deco radio.
b) because if I have a cool art deco radio i'd want to hear cool 30s & 40s jazz come out of it.
c) And because i want it to sound crap the same way that gramaphones sound crap, because i like the sound.

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trev
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#5 Post by trev » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:33 am

LindyChef wrote:Because old radios have value and, yeah, a tech project like that is cool, but all you get is a case. And to be honest, putting new electronics in to play old music just doesn't make sense. I have a family heirloom Zenith console radio that I occasionally play music out of using a tube AM transmitter. LowFi recordings pre-50's sound fantastic ouf of it. Tube electronics match the music perfectly ... hell, even Glenn Miller sounds good out of it.

Tube transmitter kits are cheap and a fun couple of hour project over a weekend.
That's awesome! That's exactly what I had in mind. :)

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Bob the Builder
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#6 Post by Bob the Builder » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:41 am

I have one of the very early 50's sterio radio with a 78 stack player.
If I used iTrip is could get it to work very easly.

Maybe some day when I'm board.

Brian :D
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#7 Post by Toon Town Dave » Mon Nov 07, 2005 12:23 pm

If you can get your hands on a schematic of the radio (or you know tube circuits really well), you could probably tap in jack between the receiver and the amplifier circuits to connect directly.

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Bob the Builder
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#8 Post by Bob the Builder » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:50 pm

I can see some ones laptop getting zapped.
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LindyChef
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#9 Post by LindyChef » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:46 pm

Toon Town Dave wrote:If you can get your hands on a schematic of the radio (or you know tube circuits really well), you could probably tap in jack between the receiver and the amplifier circuits to connect directly.
Not very advisable since old tube radios typically didn't have transformers, so that's 120V AC current flowing through the radios.

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Lawrence
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#10 Post by Lawrence » Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:52 pm

LindyChef wrote:Because old radios have value and, yeah, a tech project like that is cool, but all you get is a case. And to be honest, putting new electronics in to play old music just doesn't make sense. I have a family heirloom Zenith console radio that I occasionally play music out of using a tube AM transmitter. LowFi recordings pre-50's sound fantastic ouf of it. Tube electronics match the music perfectly ... hell, even Glenn Miller sounds good out of it.
I've often noticed that; and it is good to hear someone confirm it. I've even suspected that is why I dig more modern recordings: because older recordings sound particularly bad on my better-than-average DJ and home systems.

Does anyone know why that is? I've speculated that it is due to fact that the range of the frequency response (treble to bass) is broader on better systems than it is on the older recordings, and that the better systems play a lot of signal noise in the empty frequency ranges that blurs the music. For instance, suppose the range for a system is 6-23,000 Hz, whereas the range on a lo-fi recording is only 100-4,000; the system will play signal noise from 6-99 and from 4,0001 to 23,000, which mucks up the recording. In contrast, if it is played on a system with a range of 100-4,000, then there is no extra noise in frenquencies that have no music; thus, it sound much better.

Am I correct on this? (I know I'm struggling with the technical lingo--self-taught) If so, is this something that can be accomodated by using an equalizer to zero-out the 6-99 range and the 4,000-23,000 range? Or are there other things that affect it, as well?
Lawrence Page
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Mr Awesomer
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#11 Post by Mr Awesomer » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:20 pm

Tube based amplifiers just have a warmer, more natural sound to them as a general rule. Just about anything sounds better played over them. I don't think actual frequency response has anything to do with it, as vacuum tube based amplifiers are perfectly capable of producing sound across the range.

Hell, if I could afford it I'd get 5, 100 watt, mono tube power applifiers and hook them up to a nice high end Dolby Digital Pre-Amplifier for my home theater. That's would be hot (it more ways then one.)

But they are big, expensive, hot, suck alot of juice and don't put out alot of power... so solid state took over.
Reuben Brown
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Toon Town Dave
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#12 Post by Toon Town Dave » Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:30 pm

LindyChef wrote:
Toon Town Dave wrote:If you can get your hands on a schematic of the radio (or you know tube circuits really well), you could probably tap in jack between the receiver and the amplifier circuits to connect directly.
Not very advisable since old tube radios typically didn't have transformers, so that's 120V AC current flowing through the radios.
Only if you hook up to the wrong part of the circuit. Connection should basically be to the grid of the tube and current will be really low (high input impedance).

The tube versus transistor debate has gone on for some time. I can't find the paper but there was a researcher recreated the type of distortion found in tube aplifiers in a transister amp. Here is a different article that also does a good job of explaining why they sound better:

http://www.dwfearn.com/tvst1.htm

This excerpt may describes the perceived difference in sound quality for the music we listen to:
"Tube records have more bass. . . . The bass actually sounds an octave lower," says one rock guitarist. A couple of rofessional studio players have pointed out on numerous occasions that the middle range of tube recordings is very clear, each instrument has presence, even at very low playback levels. Transistor recordings tend to emphasize the sibilants and cymbals, especially at low levels. "Transistor recordings are very clean but they lack the 'air' of a good tube recording." "With tubes there is a space between the instruments even when they play loud . . . transistors make a lot of buzzing." Two people commented that transistors added a lot of musically unrelated harmonics or white noise, especially on attack transients. This same phenomenon was expressed by another person as a "shattered glass" sound that restricted the dynamics. It was generally agreed that tubes did not have this problem because they overloaded gently. Finally, according to one record producer, "Transistor records sound restricted like they're under a blanket. Tube records jump out of the speaker at you. . . . Transistors have highs and lows but there is no punch to the sound.”

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scowl
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#13 Post by scowl » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:34 pm

I have one of the prettiest Zenith Transoceanic shortwave radios ever made called "The Clipper". It's a common goof to see this model in WW2 movies since they look so great, but it wasn't made before 1946:

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It doesn't work very well. Fortunately this was a portable model with low voltage circuitry and one-volt tubes (it could be powered with a huge 10V lead-acid battery in the case) so it wasn't too dangerous to work on after I replaced the cord with a polarized plug. All the capacitors were dried out of course so I replaced every one of them. I also replaced one big resistor which was fried which is proabably how I got it for free. The local oscillator tube is really expensive and difficult to locate but as hard as I tried, I never could get that expensive tube to oscillate reliably. I'm not that good with analog electronics.

The audio sounds great when it works. The speaker is in incredible condition. These receivers were designed to be used in humid conditions (I guess Zenith was counting on the war going on a few more years!) so the speaker is made out of some rubberized plastic instead of tar paper.

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david
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Putting the whole computer in an old radio

#14 Post by david » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:36 am

I have seen examples of people building a whole computer into a vintage radio enclosure, just to have something that looks cool. The sound hardware is probably new, though.

I found these through google:

http://blog.mianticuario.com/index.php/ ... -ordenador
http://www.mashie.org/casemods/anemone1.html

Colin_Farquhar
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#15 Post by Colin_Farquhar » Mon May 01, 2006 11:37 pm

I've got an old GE Model K-80 from 1933-back in the day I had a discman hooked up to it, via the phono inputs. Because this input was designed for a ceramic (high o/p) cartridge with no RIAA curve, it worked just fine-tune radio to a dead part of the airwaves, and away you go. In my case, I had to make a 1/8"TRS-spade adapter, but no big deal.

Colin

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