Too much groove for me, lately

Message

djstarr · #76 Post by **djstarr** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:42 pm

falty411 wrote:Its too bad something as unimportant to the quality of music as tempo is, would be enough to make people (what seems like on principle) not dance.

Your casual social dancer will have a problem dancing fast. It takes skills to make the dance comfortable (as Kristin has said), much less make it look good.

The same exact thing can be said about dancing slow; a ballad or slow blues will tend to clear the floor more than a straight-ahead mid-tempo tune.

While I agree that tempo doesn't dictate quality, tempo does dictate dance skill. That's the way it is. That's why I learned balboa; so I'd have an option other than lindy hop (or ECS) for dancing to faster music.

yedancer · #77 Post by **yedancer** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 5:57 pm

Nate Dogg wrote:
Jeremy:

It is good to know that you have a better insight into why Greg or anybody else for that matter may not enjoy dancing to fast music as others do.

Sometimes you make me want to scream. I never claimed to have better insight about anything.

yedancer · #78 Post by **yedancer** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:03 pm

LindyChef wrote:Just to give you another perspective, it's more than just that kind of stuff. I lost half a lung to a birth defect and throughout my life I have had a difficult time keeping up with fast paced things. I always find myself winded at the end of a fast song and have to sit out the next couple ... I don't want to because I don't want to look around for an oxygen tank every time I do a fast dance. Hell, even dancing normally when I go to Denver is sometimes a challenge.

WHAT IS YOUR POINT?! Your situtation does not typify people who don't like to dance fast.

LindyChef wrote: inherent in [your analogy], you don't believe what these people are saying at face value and there is a streak of elitism/cynicism in it.

Which is exactly why I used that analogy.

Greg Avakian · #79 Post by **Greg Avakian** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:23 pm

Greg Avakian wrote: There is a big difference betwwen "can't" and "don't want to".

Addict wrote: Did I say otherwise?

I thought your statement inferred that if people can't dance faster than 180BPM there is a problem with fundamentals. But I can't because I don't practice.
Frankie, Bill and Dawn have given me props on my teaching, so I think I can safely say I'm pretty decent with my fundamentals. I know how to teach a variety of stuff in a variety of ways, but I mostly teach what I like along with stuff that I think I'm "supposed" to teach.

Greg Avakian wrote: I admit that I can't sustain a whole dance doing triples at 200BPM, but that's mostly because I have no interest in doing so. One can't seriously say "People are too lazy" or "they are wimps".

Addict wrote: No one is saying you have to do anything. But what I've found is that when people have developed the skill to bust out, they find it to be fun to do every once and a while. And I can say people are to lazy or people are wimps when they say things like 'oh I could never do that' or 'That's too much work'.

But that's the point: it is too much work. It's not worth it! (to me and a lot of people)

My bottom line is that judgment sucks. I don't give a damn what others say about me, my dancing or my DJing. But when people make sweeping generalizations about the scene and whether or not something is "appropriate" to fit their label, I think it's gross and doesn't do a service to our community overall.

Greg Avakian · #80 Post by **Greg Avakian** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:24 pm

For the record, I learned to Lindy Hop "old school" from Frankie and a bunch of east coast teachers mostly in NYC. My partner and I would drive 2 hours up to NYC almost every weekend because no one was teaching it in Philly. I loved fast music because I loved dancing. I used to stuff the suggestion box with "faster songs please" messages.

Then I saw a couple doing west coast swing to really good music. Blues music. I loved it because the music was so much better (this was just before westie music went pop and people started wearing kippy belts).

I got back into Lindy (not Rueben's definition of it*) when I found out there were people dancing Lindy to really cool Blues-based swing music.

*BTW, I do think Rueben has a point about the crossover westie-lindy dance that most of us do, but I know the music and the dance is closer to Lindy than WCS. however, I think it's helpful to use words like 'classic' or 'vintage' or 'groove' because it helps to distinguish different styles of "attitude" in one's dance...

Abdel · #81 Post by **Abdel** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:38 pm

I have been doing this Lindyhop thing for about 3.5 years now and I most definitely did not get into it because I wanted to dance slow. Part of the problem people have with dancing fast is because they did not learn how to dance fast when they first started. When a good song comes on, I would like to dance to it regardless of the tempo. A good night of dancing for me involves variation in the music tempo, energy, genre. I want to be able to dance to a few songs regardless on what how fast I fell like dancing at that particular night. Sometimes you may not feel like dancing slow, fast or choose to not dance at all. However, I know that many people enjoy dancing at nice confortable 145 bpm range. I'd like to average 170 bpm, but my crowd demands something slower or faster I got to give it to them. I definitely hate it when djs consistently like clearing the floor to f*ck with people. Ok, I am out.

LindyChef · #82 Post by **LindyChef** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:02 pm

yedancer wrote:
LindyChef wrote:Just to give you another perspective, it's more than just that kind of stuff. I lost half a lung to a birth defect and throughout my life I have had a difficult time keeping up with fast paced things. I always find myself winded at the end of a fast song and have to sit out the next couple ... I don't want to because I don't want to look around for an oxygen tank every time I do a fast dance. Hell, even dancing normally when I go to Denver is sometimes a challenge.
WHAT IS YOUR POINT?! Your situtation does not typify people who don't like to dance fast.

No, because my situation is unique ... just like everyone else's

My point is that you can't paint with a broad brush when trying to describe why people don't dance fast. Everyone's got their own reasons and there's no need for cynicism or elitism.

yedancer · #83 Post by **yedancer** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:02 am

LindyChef wrote:No, because my situation is unique ... just like everyone else's

My point is that you can't paint with a broad brush when trying to describe why people don't dance fast. Everyone's got their own reasons and there's no need for cynicism or elitism.

I think your situation is probably more unique than average. Regardless, I was originally giving my opinion of what I think other people think when they hear "I could dance fast, but I just don't want to."

gatorgal · #84 Post by **gatorgal** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:27 am

djstarr wrote:And while I generalize, do you have more cross-over influence with latin music being in South Florida vs. North? Salsa is much more popular here now, and there are more dancers who know basic latin steps, so it's been fun to put on the occasional cha-cha/swing song lately.

Nope, not really. I find that everyone stays in their dancing groups here. The Lindy/WCS dancers stay in their groups (and they don't fraternize with each other), the latin folks stay with theirs... and the same can be said for folks who do tango and ballroom. So as a consequence, the music doesn't "crossover" either. I think it's a shame that there isn't more crossover, but I'm definitely the minority opinion.

Funny that you posed that question... the owner of the ballroom where we do our Thursday night dance is starting a Hip Hop dance right after hours. The first night was last night and from my vantage point the two crowds did not mix well. But last night was hellacious (low attendance, blown amp, my car dying) so perhaps I was so stressed that I can't get proper perspective.

Tina

p.s. BTW, I realize you weren't lumping us all together... just gotta represent as the kids say...

mousethief · #85 Post by **mousethief** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:24 am

Bleagh.

Back in the old days (1996-2000) everyone danced fast to a lot of bad music and I think that the survivors got a bad taste in their mouths for faster music because of inferior bands. That distaste was heightened and partially codified by a bumper crop of rockstar teachers that - for whatever reason, cost probably - started populating local workshops and competitions.

You don't need training to dance fast. You just have to want to dance. If you don't believe me, put on some RCR or BBVD one night and watch the kids go nuts. They don't need lindy training to dance to it any more than I need classes in Hip Hop to dance to Snoop Dogg.

Kalman

mousethief · #86 Post by **mousethief** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:31 am

Bleagh - Part Deux

DJing is like dancing and even though most of us have similar collections, I like to see people develop "styles." My personal beef is that I have heard many DJs from many areas basically play "the same" sets. God knows that I might be one of them and I'm scouring my collection to avoid that. Overall, there is some variation to be sure but I don't think we're taking enough risks, that we're playing it safe too often.

If I DJed safe in Dallas for X years, I would have dancers that could dance in X range forever. That's it. There would be no point to teach Black Bottom, Big Apple, Balboa or anything else if no one was ever going to hear music that would inspire it.

Kalman

LindyChef · #87 Post by **LindyChef** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:33 am

mousethief wrote:You don't need training to dance fast. You just have to want to dance. If you don't believe me, put on some RCR or BBVD one night and watch the kids go nuts. They don't need lindy training to dance to it any more than I need classes in Hip Hop to dance to Snoop Dogg.

OMG. Now I have this huge urge to go to some top 40 club, put into BBVD, and watch the spasms ensue.

mousethief · #88 Post by **mousethief** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:59 am

LindyChef wrote:
mousethief wrote:You don't need training to dance fast. You just have to want to dance. If you don't believe me, put on some RCR or BBVD one night and watch the kids go nuts. They don't need lindy training to dance to it any more than I need classes in Hip Hop to dance to Snoop Dogg.
OMG. Now I have this huge urge to go to some top 40 club, put into BBVD, and watch the spasms ensue.

And that attitude, ladies and gentlemen is why we've scared off all the newcomers that want to dance fast and get good at it. We've made it "less than" and undesirable.

Worse, we've made it theatre - a place where we can laugh at the neophytes for being tragically un-cool.

Kalman

Addict · #89 Post by **Addict** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:20 am

Greg Avakian wrote:I thought your statement inferred that if people can't dance faster than 180BPM there is a problem with fundamentals. But I can't because I don't practice. Frankie, Bill and Dawn have given me props on my teaching, so I think I can safely say I'm pretty decent with my fundamentals. I know how to teach a variety of stuff in a variety of ways, but I mostly teach what I like along with stuff that I think I'm "supposed" to teach.

My My My ... aren't we defensive. Go reread what I wrote. I wrote at not above. I wrote nothing about 200 BPM ... you brought that up. While you're at it why don't you reread what I wrote about your teaching. If you thought I was being sarcastic(a fair accusation, I often am), I apologize because that wasn't my intent.

Greg Avakian wrote:But when people make sweeping generalizations about the scene and whether or not something is "appropriate" to fit their label, I think it's gross and doesn't do a service to our community overall.

I will not apologize for my viewpoint however. We are claiming to dance Lindy Hop. Lindy Hop is not my label. It has it's own history, far more of it from before 1984 or whenever the original recreationists began their work, than after. And if you try tell me that what I originally said was out of line with that history, quite frankly, I won't buy it.

Addict · #90 Post by **Addict** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:23 am

Abdel wrote:I have been doing this Lindyhop thing for about 3.5 years now and I most definitely did not get into it because I wanted to dance slow. Part of the problem people have with dancing fast is because they did not learn how to dance fast when they first started. When a good song comes on, I would like to dance to it regardless of the tempo. A good night of dancing for me involves variation in the music tempo, energy, genre. I want to be able to dance to a few songs regardless on what how fast I fell like dancing at that particular night. Sometimes you may not feel like dancing slow, fast or choose to not dance at all. However, I know that many people enjoy dancing at nice confortable 145 bpm range. I'd like to average 170 bpm, but my crowd demands something slower or faster I got to give it to them. I definitely hate it when djs consistently like clearing the floor to f*ck with people. Ok, I am out.

I'd love to hear you spin bro. I think I'd have a blast dancing.