Space between songs...

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KevinSchaper
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Space between songs...

#1 Post by KevinSchaper » Wed Nov 20, 2002 6:53 pm

Slowly over the last couple years I've moved from a no silence between songs, to generally some time for folks to at least start off the floor, with occasional run togethers for effect (like that great drum drop at the beginning of The Comeback coming in right after a drawn out ending) - but at the last jitterbug weekend latenight Sean was sticking stuff together end to end and I really dug it.. It really kept the energy up and made me wanna stay on the floor..

After a mixed cd mishap, I know it confuses the hell out of beginners, but I think at late night it might well be a good thing..

but I'm not djing any late nights anytime soon, so I can't play with it.. :(

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yedancer
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#2 Post by yedancer » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:34 pm

I usually have a 3-second silence, unless it's one of those occasional agonizing nights with small attendance and a weird atmosphere. Those nights I have a longer silence, so that I don't have to play as many songs.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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Dj G
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Space Between Songs

#3 Post by Dj G » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:45 pm

I get the digit ready on the about "t-minus 20 seconds" until the end and check the notes about the ending (Hard vs Soft/fade).

If hard drop; I mostly let it go and pick it back up within 2 bars into the next song. Although some great mixes can be had by shortening it to within one bar (or beat) if the feel is right.

If soft/fade out: I fade in the next one. I think a slow fade is an energy detraction.

Hey, just what works for me.

G
Yeah, that's Dj G over there; under the CD Bins, digging contently in the 45 rpm box :)

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Spin Doctor
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#4 Post by Spin Doctor » Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:47 pm

Depends on the scene and the dancers.

For Lindy crowds I put 1 or 2 seconds between songs.

For Westies - no space. I even clip the blank space off the ends of songs when I build complation discs so songs will play back to back with no space when I use the auto-start feature to move from CD to CD on my system. Sometimes I am on the dance floor and don't like to rush back to the board.

For Rock n Roll, Oldies and Club gigs (I do those sometimes), I do it the same as for Westies.

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kbuxton
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#5 Post by kbuxton » Fri Nov 22, 2002 5:02 pm

As a dancer it drives me nuts where there isn't a gap since half the time whoever I'm dancing with doesn't realize the song is ending and then all of a sudden notices "wait, this is another song" and then you've got that nervous little moment where you try to decide if you should dance another one or should walk off the floor and try to find another partner.

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yedancer
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#6 Post by yedancer » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:19 pm

kbuxton wrote:As a dancer it drives me nuts where there isn't a gap since half the time whoever I'm dancing with doesn't realize the song is ending and then all of a sudden notices "wait, this is another song" and then you've got that nervous little moment where you try to decide if you should dance another one or should walk off the floor and try to find another partner.
Agreed! There should definitely be a clear distiction between songs. However, it annoys me when there are excessive pauses between songs, especially when the DJ's use that time to blather on. Of course, that's another discussion....
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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Spin Doctor
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#7 Post by Spin Doctor » Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:58 pm

kbuxton wrote:As a dancer it drives me nuts where there isn't a gap since half the time whoever I'm dancing with doesn't realize the song is ending and then all of a sudden notices "wait, this is another song" and then you've got that nervous little moment where you try to decide if you should dance another one or should walk off the floor and try to find another partner.
That's why I put space between songs for Lindy crowds. Westies, Rock 'n Rollers, and Hip Hop dancers don't want space. They tend to either stick with one partner or they ooze from one partner to the next as the song's mix and change.

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Ron
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#8 Post by Ron » Tue Nov 26, 2002 4:41 pm

I count off a couple seconds in my mind and then I hit play.

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#9 Post by jacques_g » Tue Nov 26, 2002 7:48 pm

I think it's important to have some silence between songs. I remember one time when I was not enjoying my dance with someone (her nails were digging in my hand, and she had bad breath) the DJ had strung together 3 songs with no pause making it about 12 minutes long.

When the forth song came on, I thanked her, went to the bar and got something. I was not happy with the DJ.

JG

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#10 Post by KattenPejst » Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:30 am

I usually count it in as if I were a band leader: &1 &2, &1 2 3 4

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Lawrence
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#11 Post by Lawrence » Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:40 pm

Great question. I generally leave no pauses because it sounds unprofessional, but there are quite a bit of qualifiers and explanations beyond that.

There is no "rule" in my estimation other than to keep some sort of "flow" between songs. Usually that entails leaving no identifiable pause between songs when I DJ: "identifiable" being the operative word. If they notice the pause, it's generally too long; and most Swing DJs I have heard err on the wrong side of inserting too much of a pause. I also pay attention to the rhythm of the previous song and--when I do have a brief pause--hit the next song on "beat." (Say the end of the first song drags from the final "eight" or the final "one" to "the four," and I want some sort of pause, then I count out "five, six, seven, eight," and start the next song on the next, imaginary "one.")

Most of the "art" of DJing is creating that perfect blend between songs; not just playing "good songs," but a good MIX of songs. The first judgment in doing so is whether the next song "fits" into the "biorhythm" of the set: is it too dissimilar or too similar in style, tempo, feeling, etc; does a pattern need to be broken or do I keep the same thing up for a bit more...? The second judgment (more pertinent to this topic, but related, nonetheless, to the first judgment call) calls for deciding how to "flow" into the next song. Sometimes a nice pause is good as an "exhale" to preserve a good feeling, whereas other times it is better to kick the song off on the very next beat after the previous song ends.

Whether I put a pause in or "kick it" right away will often depend on what I want to accomplish wiith the next song. When blending (playing similar songs or tempos), I like to play them back-to-back with no pause. When "reseting" (shifting styles or tempos suddenly so as to intentionally break a pattern), I will sometimes wait a beat (only a beat), then hit it. I rarely (if ever) have more than a moment between songs unless there are announcements.

Also, the beginnings of most songs are designed as interludes of themselves. When I'm dancing, I often listen to the intro or the melody and decide whether to keep dancing as I'm walking off the floor from the previous dance. So adding a pause on top of that time just wastes time and runs the risk of killing energy.
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#12 Post by Nando » Mon Dec 23, 2002 10:48 am

I agree that it all depends. I don't think there's necessarily a 2 or 3 second rule.

Although the radio guy in me thinks it's cool when you can blend songs into another, I know that dancers for the most part would like a separation between songs so they can at least finish their dance and begin to move to a new partner.

When I have a bunch of songs that fit a certain style, genre or speed I'll keep the songs pretty tight in order to keep the flow. I'd guess approximately one second between songs - although I've never timed it. It would probably be better to measure it as a "beat." The beat isn't the beat of the song, but rather the flow you're trying to create.

Whenever I'm about to go to a song that's a bit different in comparison with the song ending, I'll add another beat or two between songs. I feel this clues the people on the dance floor that the flow is changing and prepares them. It also sounds less awkard if you're making a big transition.

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Lawrence
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#13 Post by Lawrence » Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:47 am

Just to clarify.... I am a dancer first, DJ second. I DJ accordingly. As a dancer, I personally do not want or need an identifiable space between songs. It is distracting; it dispels and often diminishes the "vibe" of the Dance (as an event). Also, again, the intro to almost every song is "throw-away" music that just warms up the song. So, as a dancer, I prefer when the "gap" between dances happens during the intro or melody to a song, not in dead silence.

Just because a few people have passively become accustomed to the "bad habits" of inexperienced DJs, that does not mean that dancers "prefer" a space between songs.

The dead space is necessary in live music to give the band a breather and to get them coordinated for the next song. So it is understandable and acceptable. A DJ just presses a button, and thus does not need that identifiable pause in order to do a good job on the next song. Artifically inserting a pause does not fool anyone that it is a DJ.
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#14 Post by Nando » Mon Dec 23, 2002 1:25 pm

Let me clarify what I meant when I said dancers needed a separation - I certainly didn't mean a dancer wants a noticable separation or a break. If the dancers notice a space it usually means that the flow has just been ruined. But as a dancer myself, I'd like enough of a hint that I can end a dance with the person I was just with. I don't need to wrangle a new partner before the next song starts and if I do - it would be nice to hear the song start before we dance.

Also, I should take back my mention of "approximately one second" between songs. I don't know what the exact time I put between space is. As a DJ who doesn't like to have "dead air" between two songs to ruin the flow, it probably feels as long as one second, but it's probably far, far less.

For longer spaces between songs of different styles, I think they add a little to a vibe. Instead of making an awkard adjustment, the beat between songs can add to one or both songs. A good example is going from an extremely loud big band finish to a gentle trio opening. That little bit of silence before a piano intro or a bass makes the opening that much stronger and noticable. The silence beforehand in a way is like the throwaway intro even before the actual intro.

It's a similar case if the songs are reversed. The last notes of a slow song or light tune extends out. It makes a nice ending - there's a little hint of a break - and then BAM! You can hit them with some brass.

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#15 Post by Greg Avakian » Thu Dec 26, 2002 8:06 am

As Steven Mitchel put it:
The introduction to a song is a time to get to know your partner. For the band it's often a way to get used to themselves and each other's vibe on a particular song. Same for the dancers.
That's what Steven means when he talks about hearing the phrases in a song and understanding song structure. Phrasing and structure exist for a band to cue in to each other and it's a great way to approach dancing too.*
This is a lesson I can work on for the rest of my life!

As a DJ, I feel it is important to allow the dancers a moment to say "thanks" and then to listen to the music as the next song starts.
I've been thinking lately that I should leave even more time between songs. Especially at events and exchanges when one might be chatting at the end of a song.

I liked what Nando said. Sometimes when it's time to change the energy from fast to slow, I try to find a tune with a big ending, wait an extra moment and then trickle in a more mellow tune. I try to use "big ending" and "big start" mostly between fast tunes because it does keep the energy up.
========
*While I love the intro to Louis and Ella's version of
"Let's call the whole thing off", I would admit that it is too long for the majority of dancers. So IMO, there are some limits.

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