Establishing yourself...or maybe "breaking in"?

Tips and techniques of the trade

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falty411
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#16 Post by falty411 » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:18 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:
falty411 wrote:if someone does just as good of a job and is willing to do it for free why wouldnt you "hire" the person who will do it for free.
i think that is the reasoning used by companies that outsource jobs to foreign countries where wages are cheaper. i think the practice is working so well they are now outsourcing white collar jobs.
This may come as a shock, but event organizers arent billion dollar CEO's trying to up their profit margin. Most likely they are struggling to break even.
-mikey faltesek

"Dancing is the union of the body with the rhythm and the sound of the music." Al Minns in 1984

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Lawrence
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#17 Post by Lawrence » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:24 pm

falty411 wrote:if someone does just as good of a job and is willing to do it for free why wouldnt you "hire" the person who will do it for free.
The operative word being "if."

There is a HUGE difference (rarely discussed) between DJing one gig here and there and DJing a weekly gig. Sometimes, a free volunteer can do a good job once or twice or maybe even five times a year, but lacks the incentive or collection to do a good, diverse job week after week. Thus, although "free" DJs might work every once in a while, paying someone with better skill and a larger collection could work to ensure a better quality dance in the long run. Not so much in a brand new scene where nobody really has a good collection or experience, but more so in an established scene with good, established DJs.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

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Lawrence
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#18 Post by Lawrence » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:34 pm

falty411 wrote:event organizers arent billion dollar CEO's trying to up their profit margin. Most likely they are struggling to break even.
So far as I know, there is no such thing as a "billion dollar" CEO, and CEO's make money for their shareholders, not themselves, because they do not own the companies they operate. But, your comparison set aside, you make a good point, which is why most of us have DJed (and continue to DJ) for "free/fun." But if a venue can afford several hundred dollars on a band (which most regular venues do), it can afford $20 or so for a DJ who serves a similar function, if only to help contribute to their CD collection.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

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CafeSavoy
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#19 Post by CafeSavoy » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:45 pm

falty411 wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:
falty411 wrote:if someone does just as good of a job and is willing to do it for free why wouldnt you "hire" the person who will do it for free.
i think that is the reasoning used by companies that outsource jobs to foreign countries where wages are cheaper. i think the practice is working so well they are now outsourcing white collar jobs.
This may come as a shock, but event organizers arent billion dollar CEO's trying to up their profit margin. Most likely they are struggling to break even.
It's no shock. But it's not really relevant to the discussion. Unless you
are trying to argue that struggling businesses have a right to exploit
workers. Moreoever, I wonder whether this expectation of free services
is why event promoters are struggling. I think the Yallopping Hounds did
a song about it, "Swing Free Rider."

Also some event promoters prefer to compensate staff for the tasks they
preform because then they can expect a certain level of professionalism.

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Dj G
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BULLSEYE!

#20 Post by Dj G » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:09 pm

CafeSavoy wrote: I think the Yallopping Hounds did
a song about it, "Swing Free Rider."

Also some event promoters prefer to compensate staff for the tasks they
preform because then they can expect a certain level of professionalism.
You get what you pay for.
Yeah, that's Dj G over there; under the CD Bins, digging contently in the 45 rpm box :)

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Swifty
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#21 Post by Swifty » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:33 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:It's no shock. But it's not really relevant to the discussion. Unless you are trying to argue that struggling businesses have a right to exploit workers. Moreoever, I wonder whether this expectation of free services is why event promoters are struggling. I think the Yallopping Hounds did a song about it, "Swing Free Rider."
Exactly my point. I don't expect to get paid for every gig I DJ. To be honest, I hardly expect to get paid for any gig I get. However, I do expect to be treated with respect and maybe get a "thank you" if I do a good job. And I guess I expect to have my admission to the event taken care of. I hardly think that's a big deal.

Yet not every event will provide those things, and I think they will continue to work the same way as long as DJs, new or established, are willing to "take any gig offered" in order to establish themselves.

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Greg Avakian
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#22 Post by Greg Avakian » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:48 pm

What DJ G said.
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I would like to see more 'mentoring' of some kind. Paul, Sharon, Rayned, Jesse and Bill have been really helpful to a lot of DJs. I like the idea of DJ summits. I think we need more DJs who can pick good competition music.

Event directors need to hear from more DJs that DJs should be paid -or at least compensated for expenses. I can't believe people want you to fly to their city and spin in exchange for a dance pass. Charge an extra $5 and pay the frickin' DJ!
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As for small events: maybe the promoter doesn't get to make gobs of money until he/she gets a following and a reputation for running a good event.

Bill Cameron started out hosting "swing brunches".

You have to know what the value of the service you provide is and you have to know how to size whatever you are doing proportionately to the number of people who will attend. You have to plan for the worst -the only time I ever cancelled a major event was after 911 and we cancelled about 3 weeks early so everyone would know. Maybe I could have done well if I had waited, but I'd rather have no event than a crappy one.

All of that helps to establish a weekly event too. I think the fact that we got a lot of people coming to Philly from NYC and DC on a week night did a lot to help my rep as a DJ.

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djstarr
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Re: Establishing yourself...or maybe "breaking in"

#23 Post by djstarr » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:04 am

mousethief wrote:Walk the floor. Do not dance every song; it's often damned impossible. But walk the floor and talk to people. A few "enjoying the night" or "how are you doin'" comments allow people to access you without having to make a request or otherwise travel up to the booth.

Kalman
That's a great suggestion, I don't get out of the booth enough.

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djstarr
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Re: Establishing yourself...or maybe "breaking in"

#24 Post by djstarr » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:11 am

jmatthew wrote:So, my question is, any tips for establishing oneself as an actual DJ versus "random guy with music that's willing to try to keep the crowd happy"?
One thing I've done is traveled to nearby cities to DJ; from Seattle I can easily go to Olympia, Tacoma and Vancouver CA - they all have different flavors of dances/dancers and it has been a great way to get experience playing to a wide variety of dancers.

Don't be afraid to ask for a gig; I already knew the organizers since I had been dancing for a long time (5 years) before I started Dj'ing, so it was easy to approach them. Most organizers are busy and I think they appreciate DJs being pro-active.

I'd also ask to be paid whatever the venue normally pays; if you start Dj'ing for free where other folks get paid it probably wouldn't make you friends with the other DJ's in the scene who will be your best allies over the long term; if there is a venue where DJ's volunteer, that's a great place to ask for a regular slot to gain experience.

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