SwingDJs

I know I did this same poll just a few months ago in June, although with a 1-year timeframe. But I still can't believe the results which showed that on average, people's swing scenes were about the same. Ours just keeps going down and down. I'd like to attribute it to a national trend. So anyway, I thought I'd ask it again, with a two year timeframe, because trends are more obvious on a longer timeframe.

Compared to two years ago, we don't bring in as many national workshop instructors, when we do, not as many people go to them. Venues are more lightly attended, even events that used to be big, such as Halloween, are sparsely attended now. A venue that had 90 people two years ago will have 50-60 now. Fewer kids from the university come than before, and more of the older dancers coupled up and now have other interests. A new venue opens up with a crowd of people, and then after a couple weeks, its a trickle. As far as I can tell, the instructors and promoters and djs are doing the right things here in general so I don't know what to attribute the decline to.

How about you guys?

Things are going great here in Austin. We do have seasonal fluctuations. But, in general the scene is a big as ever.

However, it is not the live music scene that it was in 1997-99. But, that has not been the case since 1999.

Nathan

Ron wrote: I know I did this same poll just a few months ago in June, although with a 1-year timeframe. But I still can't believe the results which showed that on average, people's swing scenes were about the same. Ours just keeps going down and down. I'd like to attribute it to a national trend. So anyway, I thought I'd ask it again, with a two year timeframe, because trends are more obvious on a longer timeframe.

It's like you're describing South Florida as well, except in regards to workshops.

I've only been in the South Florida for just over 2 years but there has been a sharp drop in attendance and a rise in apathy. Although, the committee here does an excellent job of bringing in top notch instructors to this area. However, since they're probably just breaking even with these events, they can't bring the quality instructors here often.

Unfortunately our local instruction is not consistent and sporadic at best. There are folks who are willing and able to teach beginners, but instruction for intermediate and advanced dancers is sorely lacking, which is a source of a lot of my frustration. But I don't blame the instructors for not sticking around when the dancers don't support classes or support venues.

This is also something I've seen not only in Lindy circles, but in the WC crowd as well.

Very frustrating indeed.

Tina

DC seems to be doing just fine. can dance every night of the week. Have a couple of new venues in the last 6months spring up with a couple more coming. Perhaps it's a little larger rather than about the same, but I did about the same.

Personally, I think the San Diego scene started declining a couple years ago because Jeremy B started djing regularly...

just kidding!

Nate Dogg wrote:Things are going great here in Austin. We do have seasonal fluctuations. But, in general the scene is a big as ever.

However, it is not the live music scene that it was in 1997-99. But, that has not been the case since 1999.

Correction: it is not the Neo-Crap Live music scene it was in 1999 when wearing a purple Zoot-suit made you the shit of the scene.

Austin has gotten better in the past year, and probably is as vibrant as it ever has been. Three main factors go into the strength of Austin's scene. First, we have enough key players (with diverse enough interests) to split the burdens so that when somebody gets burned out, others are there to take the ball and run with it.

Second, healthy competition. Nobody holds a monopoly on the scene, which allows for different tastes and preferences to develop and be served and does not run the risk of the scene imploding if the sole monopoly player suddenly falters or fails. The competition also forces all three of the primary groups to do their best instead of rest on their laurels of being the only show in town, and ultimately boring the dancers into apathy.

Related to the first factor, sometimes the REASON key players step up to take the ball is because they don't want someone else to do so, or they are responding to how well someone else carried the ball. The competition thus keeps the key players on their toes enough that they end up keeping the scene alive. On the other hand, when passions get imflamed, almost everyone seems to make their own sort of effort to make sure that all-out war does not break out.

Third, the primary not-for-profit group works as a partner with, not a competitor of, the for-profit teaching groups. As a result, the inevitable annual turnover (burnout) in the volunteers of the not-for-profit group does not affect the quality of instruction or dancing in the scene.

In other scenes, not-for-profit groups stole customers from for-profit groups by comepting on unequal terms (slave labor of the volunteers) and put the for-profit groups out of business. Then the key volunteers in the not-for-profit became frustrated/burned out, abandoned the scene, and left a void that was not filled, or that was filled by less copetent for people that couldn't sustain the scene at that size.

(duplicate post)

Lawrence wrote:

Nate Dogg wrote:Things are going great here in Austin. We do have seasonal fluctuations. But, in general the scene is a big as ever.

However, it is not the live music scene that it was in 1997-99. But, that has not been the case since 1999.

Correction: it is not the Neo-Crap Live music scene it was in 1999 when wearing a purple Zoot-suit made you the shit of the scene.

Lawrence:

You did not leave here in in 1997-99. You showed up over a year after all that died out. You are either describing Austin through a short visit or your impression of other places.

There were some zoot suits, but they were always a minority. Back in the day, you could see a live swing band every night. The best dancers in the scene had only been dancing a year or two. There was no Syndicate, no Fed, no Exchanges, the floors were mostly small, more dancers drank, the DJs merely played anonymous sets during the band breaks and so on.

You could say that Merchants of Venus was a neo-swing band. But, I don't think 8 1/2 Souvenirs, Seth Walker (with his old sound), Nash Hernandez, Jive Bombers, Rocket 69, etc... had the dreaded neo-swing sound. Most of the stereotypical neo-swing shows were road shows.

Nathan

What about Seattle? I heard it was declining. And what about San Fran?

I'm not talking about comparing to 1999, things are vastly different from then probably in all scenes. Two years ago it was 2001.

I picked "a little larger" even though I don't know the population of the TOTAL swing scene in Pittsburgh, in which the advanced dancer "regulars" are far outnumbered by short-time newbies, older couples, occasional highschoolers, etc. The "big picture" of the scene from the perspective of our largest venue-owner has been in a steady decline since Gap changed their advertising, I think. But certainly our venues, live music, and overall knowledge & stuff have gone up since then. Two years ago, it was two weeks before our first exchange! And I wasn't DJing! And we now have semi-regular dances at a great historic jazz club, more weeknight options, etc. There seems to be more traveling now, Mezzjelly.com is a lot better, and more people seem to have a consciousness of Pittsburgh as a scene, current company excluded (all you rackum frackum east coast, whatever, southern people )

There is little doubt that Chicago has less dancers. All of the following events draw less people these days:
Sundays -Willowbrook
Thursdays-Used to be a packed Rumors, now about 20 dancer show up at Jefferson Tap.
Satrudays-StudioX

Mondays at Fizz is still going strong but that is the only reguarly reliable event in Chicago.

Ron wrote:What about Seattle? I heard it was declining. And what about San Fran?

I'm not talking about comparing to 1999, things are vastly different from then probably in all scenes. Two years ago it was 2001.

I voted for "a little smaller". It's hard to tell really; certain venues are dramatically smaller, specifically the Century. Other venues, such as Sonny's and the Russian Center, are packed. It is not as consistent as in 2001, and it's definitely harder to sell out workshops and camps.

The issues at the Century are starting to get worked out; there had been a problem with the water and lights which is being addressed; there are starting to be more and more beginners coming out to the Century, which is by far the friendliest beginner place to dance (plenty of tables; food in the cafe near by; alcohol on Weds.).

The posers from 2001 (i.e. people trying to be cool or get laid) have moved to the salsa scene; new people who come out now really like swing/jazz and enjoy dancing to the music; no one gets too dressed up.

I've been dancing in Seattle since 1998; I'm on my third set of friends (casual/social dancers who hang in there for a year or two and then bail). I can still go out dancing Sun, Mon, Tue, Weds, Thu and every other Sat. Friday's there is a blues dance once a month, and every Friday there is a nightclub that plays live jazz with a small dance floor. Olympia has a weekly dance that draws well, so does Tacoma.

The Pacific NW in general is pretty healthy; Vancouver B.C. and Portland have great scenes; there are smaller school scenes in Victoria B.C., Moscow Idaho, Spokane and Ellensburg; and there is plenty of intermingling during workshops.

So on the whole I think the scene is a tad smaller, and changing, but I think interest is starting to pick up. Swing is certainly not *dead* here as some of my friends like to point out. I'd be interested to hear from the other folks from Seattle on their viewpoint.

mark0tz wrote:DC seems to be doing just fine.

I've heard really good reports from the folks in Seattle who have been to DC lately - makes me want to come out to the next exchange.

My question is if a good deal of dancers are leaving in various scenes, where are they going to? Can you get them back?

It's a question that's been weighing on my mind here in South Florida. Our weekly dance last night was so frustrating. There were hardly that many people there... there was not a lot of energy at all.

Tina

Atlanta is either declining or in transition, depending on whose opinion you seek.

There is an "old guard" (relatively speaking) that is dropping out and moving away. No less than a dozen of what would've been considered primary "movers and shakes" in the scene have gotten married, had children, moved to other cities, or simply stopped coming out.

There is a younger group of folks who have just started dancing in the past year or so who are starting to come out more and get involved with organizing events and such. So, there is some transition involved.

But, as someone who is leaving in less than two months, I'm less concerned now. Now, Seattle (my destination) on the other hand better be rockin' nuts by the time I get there... har har.