How do you find your new music?

Tips and techniques of the trade

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Lawrence
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Re: How do you find your new music?

#16 Post by Lawrence » Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:45 pm

SirScratchAlot wrote:Now I know there is TONS of danceble music in the world, I for one to think anything is danceable, But I think it would nicer if more "swing DJ's" acually did the same, keeping in mind most of the stuff played to day at Lindy Dances was never ever played live for dancers in the first place, rather for a concert crowd (as in most cases) most of these modern jazz players dont even know how to communicate or play for dances other then keeping a time, and this goes for many of the Jazz legends post dance era. Its not there fault they missed the dance era and never had the chances to witness or feel the two together night aftre night both on the floor infront of them as well as the satge beside them, These newer players hence never made the attempt to collaboarte or understand to importance of movement associated with music.

So when Playin a Tune next time stop and think, did this player or group even care about dancin? most certainly didnt. But there were those that cherished Dancers not only as fellow friends but as fellow Jazz Performers , lets not forget them by playing and dancing to their music...
if not for it's supereo rhythms and driven force, but for the simple fact they supported us for decades, even when the going got tuff after the war, they continued to support us as their own profession was in decline, all through these strugglin Years, Barnett and Basie to name Two, continued to include dance,both as a social form and performance form, even as the trend of concert jazz took a hold and over shadowed the dance bands before them.

If it was in fact all the same , it would be easy , cause we would just support the perosn who supported us, but it's not all the same, there is dancer drivin music and there isn't.
Good points. I used to look for "dance" bands, but eventually found it somewhat misleading.

First, Bob Crosby, Paul Whiteman, Glenn Miller, Tommy Dorsey and many, many others all led "dance bands." I have a Bob Crosby CD entitled "Dance your shoes off" that I should put in the "wish I'd never purchased i" thread: trite, sing-songy crap that would make even Harrison or Falty sick. But I don't think anyone would want to play their music at a modern Lindy event; indeed they are shunned because their rhythm, arrangements and such were the Swing Era equivalents of Celine Dion or Whitney Houston: sells well, but really vapid and uninspiring music. So not all Swing Era "dance bands" play dance music we would want to play.

Second, and I don't want to beat the point to death, but limiting it to Swing Era dance bands limits the search to a finite subset of danceable music because the Era of top-quality musicians consciously catering to Lindy Hoppers/Jitterbuggers is long gone. In a sense, it's just another way of saying "buy only vintage music" because there are only a handful of modern bands who specifically cater to dancers, and many if not most of them fall short on musicianship.

Third, just because a band does not cater to dancers does not mean that it is not good for dancing. Many of the musicians behind the most popular music at Lindy events were and are completely ignorant of how danceable their music was: Oscar Peterson, Ray Bryant, Lou Rawls, etc. Those musicians still can (and often DO) understand the rhythmic nature of the music that inspired the dance, in the first place. The dance does not come first, the music does. Both the dancers and the musicians who are oblivious of the dancers are tuned into the same thing: the rhythm.

Apart from stealing other's ideas, the two most reliable tactics I have found are 1) listen to CDs in the store and take risks; and 2) pay attention to and learn the members of the back-up band on your favorite albums, especially the rhythm section. For instance, Ray Brown as a bassist is a classic example. Perhaps 80-90% of his recordings were as part of someone else's band: he is most of the reason that "Gene Harris" and "Oscar Peterson" are household names in the Lindy world. Any time I find him in the back-up band, I give it a serious listen.
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julius
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Re: How do you find your new music?

#17 Post by julius » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:05 pm

Lawrence wrote:
Second, and I don't want to beat the point to death, but limiting it to Swing Era dance bands limits the search to a finite subset of danceable music because the Era of top-quality musicians consciously catering to Lindy Hoppers/Jitterbuggers is long gone. In a sense, it's just another way of saying "buy only vintage music" because there are only a handful of modern bands who specifically cater to dancers, and many if not most of them fall short on musicianship.
I feel that you would eat your words in a microsecond if you had been in New Orleans this past weekend. I too used to think swing was actually kind of a dead, preserved music found only in jazz festivals (and at LA dances), but it turns out that there is a veritable ARMY of musicians in New Orleans who keep the music alive and well. My backpack of CDs can attest to this fact. In fact in my video clip of Duke Heitger and Evan Christopher at LMF, Evan finishes his solo, leans over to the dancers, does a little hip wiggle, and shouts "FIVE SIX SEVEN EIGHT!" at us, obviously to try to get us to dance.

If you mean that swing is dead because nobody is writing new songs, I think that misses the point of swing music. And you could get even pickier and say, as many did in the forties, that nobody says anything new in their solos anymore. To which I say: so what? Quality is quality.
The dance does not come first, the music does. Both the dancers and the musicians who are oblivious of the dancers are tuned into the same thing: the rhythm.
I partially agree, but the dance and the music evolved together.
Until bop, jazz was inextricably tied to dancing. It's not a coincidence that jazz became a concert-oriented music.

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#18 Post by mity » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:19 pm

julius wrote: .....I too used to think swing was actually kind of a dead, preserved music found only in jazz festivals (and at LA dances)......
now thanks to jelly roll, you can add new york to that short list.

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#19 Post by yedancer » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:32 pm

julius wrote:I feel that you would eat your words in a microsecond if you had been in New Orleans this past weekend. I too used to think swing was actually kind of a dead, preserved music found only in jazz festivals (and at LA dances), but it turns out that there is a veritable ARMY of musicians in New Orleans who keep the music alive and well. My backpack of CDs can attest to this fact. In fact in my video clip of Duke Heitger and Evan Christopher at LMF, Evan finishes his solo, leans over to the dancers, does a little hip wiggle, and shouts "FIVE SIX SEVEN EIGHT!" at us, obviously to try to get us to dance.

If you mean that swing is dead because nobody is writing new songs, I think that misses the point of swing music. And you could get even pickier and say, as many did in the forties, that nobody says anything new in their solos anymore. To which I say: so what? Quality is quality.
I agree with you, Julius. However, on a national scale, it's obvious that swing is "dead." The fact that it survives in one city doesn't mean much to pretty much everyone who lives outside of that city. I think that swing is alive on an underground level, but it is obviously dead compared to the way it once was. By the way, I hate you and everyone who was able to go to New Orleans.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#20 Post by gatorgal » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:34 pm

yedancer wrote:By the way, I hate you and everyone who was able to go to New Orleans.
Yeah, what he said.

Tina 8)

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#21 Post by julius » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:37 pm

yedancer wrote:I think that swing is alive on an underground level, but it is obviously dead compared to the way it once was. By the way, I hate you and everyone who was able to go to New Orleans.
If you accept that line of reasoning, the music Lawrence is talking about is also "dead".

You should hate me. Did I mention that I have this video clip I want to show people?

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#22 Post by mousethief » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:15 pm

julius wrote:
yedancer wrote:I think that swing is alive on an underground level, but it is obviously dead compared to the way it once was. By the way, I hate you and everyone who was able to go to New Orleans.
If you accept that line of reasoning, the music Lawrence is talking about is also "dead".

You should hate me. Did I mention that I have this video clip I want to show people?
That clip kicks ass. Fortunately, I was there in New Orleans when you filmed [spoiler] it [/spoiler].

Kalman

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#23 Post by mark0tz » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:20 pm

yedancer wrote:By the way, I hate you and everyone who was able to go to New Orleans.
Haha, even the airport had better music than some dances i've been to. We all need to move there. My soul's still there somewhar.
Mike Marcotte

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#24 Post by mousethief » Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:51 pm

I've thought about moving since Lindygras 1. That whole "No One Gets Out Alive" 300 Mile Hurricane Evac Zone squelchs that desire pretty quickly.

Plus, no pasties.

Kalman

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#25 Post by gatorgal » Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:04 pm

mousethief wrote:I've thought about moving since Lindygras 1. That whole "No One Gets Out Alive" 300 Mile Hurricane Evac Zone squelchs that desire pretty quickly.

Plus, no pasties.

Kalman
Wimp. :)

Tina 8)

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#26 Post by yedancer » Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:38 pm

Where is the clip, damn you!
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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#27 Post by Yakov » Thu Feb 12, 2004 11:48 am

kitkat wrote:Rhythm Sweet & Hot, a...Pennsylvania, was it?...30's music show I found out airs here on Saturday nights.
yeah you know it's pennsylvania...
try: PITTSBURGH, pennsylvania!
those guys are awesome. they DJed our saturday afternoon dance at the exchange last fall.

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Re: How do you find your new music?

#28 Post by funkyfreak » Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:52 pm

Lawrence wrote:limiting [music played] to Swing Era dance bands limits the search to a finite subset of danceable music because the Era of top-quality musicians consciously catering to Lindy Hoppers/Jitterbuggers is long gone.
Limiting music played to only "swinging music" limits the search to a finite subset of danceable music because there are only so many bands in the catagory of jazz.

Either way you look at it, you have a finite number of bands who play swing music. Sounds like Peter's just trying to recognize the extra energy a band brings when they've been strongly influenced by surrounding, responsive dancers.

-FF

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#29 Post by Yakov » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:35 pm

Yakov wrote:
kitkat wrote:Rhythm Sweet & Hot, a...Pennsylvania, was it?...30's music show I found out airs here on Saturday nights.
yeah you know it's pennsylvania...
try: PITTSBURGH, pennsylvania! check it out: http://www.wduq.org
those guys are awesome. they DJed our saturday afternoon dance at the exchange last fall.

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Lawrence
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Re: How do you find your new music?

#30 Post by Lawrence » Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:36 pm

julius wrote:I feel that you would eat your words in a microsecond if you had been in New Orleans this past weekend. I too used to think swing was actually kind of a dead, preserved music found only in jazz festivals (and at LA dances), but it turns out that there is a veritable ARMY of musicians in New Orleans who keep the music alive and well.
Actually, we agree entirely. I wouldn't eat my words, I'd reiterate them. None of those New Orleans bands that you enjoyed cater specifically to dancers like Chick Webb and Jimmy Lunceford's bands did. But they are still playing kick-ass music for dancing because they are still tied to the rhythm to which we respond. Even if it might be vintage-style (or groove style, or whatever style), danceable music is still alive even though the bands don't specifically cater to dancers.
Limiting music played to only "swinging music" limits the search to a finite subset of danceable music because there are only so many bands in the catagory of jazz.

Either way you look at it, you have a finite number of bands who play swing music. Sounds like Peter's just trying to recognize the extra energy a band brings when they've been strongly influenced by surrounding, responsive dancers.
Yes, and that's fine as one factor to consider, but, again, it can mislead you to buy, say, Bob Crosby and overlook Duke Ellington or any one of the musicians Julius enjoyed in new Orleans this past weekend... or Gene Harris... or Ray Brown... or James Dapogny's Chicago Jazz Band.
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