The Science of BPMs

Tips and techniques of the trade

Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy

Message
Author
User avatar
gatorgal
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:45 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

The Science of BPMs

#1 Post by gatorgal » Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:39 am

This is probably a dumba$$ question, but here goes...

If a CD doesn't list the BPM of a particular song, how do you figure it out? Are you people just counting or do you have metronomes beside your beds or something?

I really don't have an "ear" for this sort of thing... I don't know how some people can hear a song, and approximate how fast it is. Is there something I can download to help me figure this out?

Thanks!
Tina 8)
"I'm here to kick a little DJ a$$!"
~ Foreman on That 70s Show

User avatar
JesseMiner
Posts: 1034
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 5:36 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA
Contact:

#2 Post by JesseMiner » Wed Oct 01, 2003 9:46 am

Check out the Counting BPM discussion here in "DJ Skillz".

Jesse

julius
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:30 am
Location: los angeles

#3 Post by julius » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:18 am

I like to challenge myself to estimate the bpm of a song and then later on look it up or calculate it. With practice you can get a ballpark range (with much more error at faster tempos) right off the bat.

It helps to know one or two milestone songs so well that you can hear it in your head at the proper tempo and compare it with the song being played.

User avatar
gatorgal
Posts: 538
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:45 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

#4 Post by gatorgal » Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:52 am

JesseMiner wrote:Check out the Counting BPM discussion here in "DJ Skillz".

Jesse
Thanks!

Tina 8)
"I'm here to kick a little DJ a$$!"
~ Foreman on That 70s Show

Lindy Bomb
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:27 pm
Location: Dirty D

#5 Post by Lindy Bomb » Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:09 pm

julius wrote:I like to challenge myself to estimate the bpm of a song and then later on look it up or calculate it. With practice you can get a ballpark range (with much more error at faster tempos) right off the bat.

It helps to know one or two milestone songs so well that you can hear it in your head at the proper tempo and compare it with the song being played.
We did stuff like that in my conducting class. We had to actually memorize certain tempi (60, 72, 84, 96, 108, 120, etc.) and be able to conduct that speed when asked for a test. I found the easiest way was to memorize the bpms of songs that you know well and use those for reference. I'll still test myself every once in a while and see how much I've kept up my skills.

Oh, and you can also buy this cool thing called (I think) a tempo watch. Conductors use it to see what they're conducting, but it can be a great tool for djs. It looks like and old fashioned stop watch. You click once to start and click again on the 7th beat and it tells you the bpm. They're a bit pricey, but could be well worth the money.

User avatar
kitkat
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 10:34 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

#6 Post by kitkat » Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:43 am

Lindy Bomb wrote:You click once to start and click again on the 7th beat and it tells you the bpm. They're a bit pricey, but could be well worth the money.
I'd previously been counting like a doctor takes a pulse and doing the math in my head. I kept having to wait for my count of "1" to fall at the beginning of a second. I think I'll start using my stopwatch and not have to do this anymore...thanks for the idea.

julius
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:30 am
Location: los angeles

#7 Post by julius » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:13 am

I tapped out bpm for a couple of Basie (O.T.) songs and it is amazing how Basie is able to nail 240 bpm. Seems like 200, 240, and 260 were some of his favorite tempos.

KattenPejst
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:36 am
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Contact:

#8 Post by KattenPejst » Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:15 am

I just count eight-counts for 30 seconds and multiply by 16.

One of my standard songs that I compare with is "Whaddya want" (Casey McGill) which is 160 beats per minute. I don't use 'beats per minute'
that often, I usually use Bars Per Minute instead.

User avatar
Greg Avakian
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

#9 Post by Greg Avakian » Mon Oct 27, 2003 9:50 pm

kitkat wrote: I'd previously been counting like a doctor takes a pulse and doing the math in my head. I kept having to wait for my count of "1" to fall at the beginning of a second.
Just remeber that you have to start your stop watch a beat before your first "one" of counting -otherwise you miss that beat.

Lindy Bomb
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:27 pm
Location: Dirty D

#10 Post by Lindy Bomb » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:31 am

no you don't, you start it at the same time as the beat. you just have to be precise (basicly, don't hang behind the beat like we dancers tend to do), it's not that hard. otherwise you're getting extra time in there and your results won't be accurate. with the tempo watch it tells you the bpm based on how long 6 beats takes. kitkat's method is a bit different, I would probably see how many beats I counted in 6 seconds (using a stop watch) and multiply by 10, although for the sake of being accurate it would be better to go with a longer period of time, maybe count for 12 or 20 seconds and multiply by 5 or 3, respectively.

User avatar
Greg Avakian
Posts: 382
Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:27 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Contact:

#11 Post by Greg Avakian » Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:48 am

This is completely unrelated to hanging behind the beat, so I think you are misunderstanding what I said; please allow me to clarify so that people understand how to count tempos using a stop watch.

If you count off before you push the button on the stop watch:
"5, 6, 7, 8.."

You push the start button on the stop watch on "8" and then count the number of beats until you reach whatever number of seconds you want to use (I use 15 because it's easy to multiply by 4 and it doesn't take too much time).

It's like counting the years you were alive by starting the day you were born: after a year, you are a year old. If you start on the "1" (the first year), you've already missed an entire year. Back to tempo: if you start at the "8", one beat's worth of time has passed by the time you count the next "1".

In other words, if you start the stop watch on "1", and stop on "2", one beat will have passed, not 2. If you start on "8" and stop at 2, then 2 beats will have passed.

User avatar
falty411
Posts: 370
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2003 9:22 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

#12 Post by falty411 » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:30 am

Greg Avakian wrote:after a year, you are a year old.
whoa whoa whoa.....slow down egghead
-mikey faltesek

"Dancing is the union of the body with the rhythm and the sound of the music." Al Minns in 1984

Lindy Bomb
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:27 pm
Location: Dirty D

#13 Post by Lindy Bomb » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:37 pm

I see, your method and mine are different. you're counting the number of beats in a certain time period, and I'm talking about counting only 6 beats. so if you click on the first one and click again on the 7th one, you've got 6 beats. that's the way that tempo watches (not stop watches) work. click..2..3..4..5..6..click. easy as that, and you've got your tempo right there.

with a stop watch (or a tempo watch for that matter) it doesn't really matter what beat you start on, as long as you start on a beat. I just click on a beat and start counting (like I showed above), it may be easier to start on 8, but you can start whenever you want. I also find that the longer the amount of time you count, the more accurate the bpm is.

User avatar
CafeSavoy
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:25 pm
Location: Mobtown
Contact:

#14 Post by CafeSavoy » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:53 pm

Lindy Bomb wrote:I see, your method and mine are different. you're counting the number of beats in a certain time period, and I'm talking about counting only 6 beats. so if you click on the first one and click again on the 7th one, you've got 6 beats. that's the way that tempo watches (not stop watches) work. click..2..3..4..5..6..click. easy as that, and you've got your tempo right there.
interesting. what else are they called, "tempo watch" on google didn't give any useful results within a few pages.

Lindy Bomb
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 6:27 pm
Location: Dirty D

#15 Post by Lindy Bomb » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:47 pm

I'll look around. I had a website where you can order them, but I have to find it. I think they're called tempo watches, if not that...something similar. They are pretty pricey, though. Then tend to run in the triple digits- which is alot if you just wanna figure out the bpms on a few songs. It's not bad if you're going to use it alot, like a conductor would.

*edited to add this link: http://www.tempowatch.com/pages/1/index.htm *

Locked