Lindy exchanges local or national DJ's

[djstarr]

If it was defined as anyone who spent a few years therethen in NYC it would be practicly the entire jazz selection, swing and non-swing. Chicago would have practicly every blues musician since ww2, and many of the jazz men from 1920-1935. For example would it be fair to cound Earl Hines who performed in Chicago with a regualr gig for 12 years but is not really from here. Personally I would only count people who are known to be associated with that city or a band that is currently playing reguarly in that city.

oh, take pity on poor Seattle; we are isolated up here in the NW....

and if the EMP can count Quincy and Ray, then so can I (Ernestine is a nobrainer since she still lives here)
http://www.emplive.com/explore/quincy_j ... street.asp

otherwise we'd be forced to play a lot more Kenny G than anyone would want to hear.

[cianna]

(hmm... wondering if it's too late to jump in, she posts anyway...)

Hey all -- Jesse's been encouraging me to check this board out and this topic is pretty timely for me right now so here I am!

I know I start from a privileged place, both from being in San Francisco and having Jesse be my DJ coordinator for SFLX, but those caveats aside, I've been thinking about the "local vs. national DJ" issue quite a bit in organizing our exchange. I have multiple goals as an exchange organizer, including: providing excellent dance experiences for a national audience, featuring our city(-ies in this case), providing a variety of music, setting a tone for every venue, and making sure that people have a good time.

So much of what I'm taking into account is so subjective...

I consider it really excellent to give some of our local DJs some national exposure, particularly those who I think play really dance-able sets and who pay close attention to the crowd. I spoke with Jesse about paying attention to this, while at the same time giving time to a few DJs from the national scene (Jesse and Sharon included). We're also trying to have different feelings at different events so that means having x number of slots for one kind of music, etc. It also meant consciously selecting 3 live bands who play different kinds of music -- few people are equally passionate about all of them -- and then trying to balance those nights with the intervening DJ sets without breaking the rhythm of the band.

I guess this is all to say if we have good local DJs to fill the slot, then we'll choose them. If a DJ is coming that we wish to feature or if they play music which fits the mood we're trying to create, then we'll choose them. I/we value both and are placing a priority on creating the right mood.

When I started dancing (6 or 7 years ago) I was in one of the leading swing cities (SF), and we had excellent DJs... only problem for me then was when I went to another city and I heard only SF DJs... I don't want anyone to experience that. I also want our locals to get a mix of DJs, and Jesse and I have included cities up to 200 miles away as "local" in order to mix it up.

as for the blues question... that's mostly what I DJ... and there's going to be plenty of classic Delta and Chicago blues in our blues room... and not all "grind-tempo"... at least not during my set.

*phew!* I'm going to stop there. That's way plenty for a first post.

**Note that above I said "featuring our city" and not "our scene" since I feel that you don't realistically experience our SF scene during an exchange when nearly every venue is different from the norm to accomodate the overwhelming increase in the number of dancers. During the first and small exchanges I could check out the local scene, but otherwise... no.

[smunky]

one of the key and often overlooked aspects of all of this discussion is attitude (good or bad).

i have been to exchanges where i thought some of the dj'ing was subpar, but never felt the need to post my opinions publicly. If the entire event was dj'ed poorly, i think it is appropriate to give your feedback to the organizers so they can be aware of it. Maybe they were not trying to attract people with your tastes in music, maybe they were and failed, or maybe you are upset they didn't ask you to dj...who knows.

But whether you give your feedback privately or publish it publicly on national message boards, it is critical to try to be objective and understand your own bias and ego (esp if you are a dj yourself). this objectivity have been severely lacking in many of the posts i have seen about various exchanges, and along with hyperbole about the amount of certain kinds of music played (i.e. saying the whole exchange was a hammond b-3 convention, when one person played two songs in a set that had a b-3 in it), is ultimately divisive and destructive to the culture of music and dance we profess to love.

it makes us look bad when we make snooty comments that criticize others' skills, rather than doing something positive like starting a dialogue with a dj we think might be able to do a better job. heck, they might be trying their hardest, and would love some suggestions about music to play, and things to pay attention to. you might even learn something from the discussion too (gasp).

there are some dj's who don't give a rat's ass about the crowd, but they are few and far between, so let's give each other a little more credit and avoid the self-congratulatory sniping.


p.s. any recommendations for good funk songs to play at stlbx this year?

[smunky]

i was suprised last year on the run up to stlbx that a couple of people made it clear that they would attend if certain dj's would be there (jesse miner in particular), and would not attend if they were not. nothing against the really well know and popular (for good reason) dj's, but it seemed like a pretty silly attitude.

[CafeSavoy]

p.s. any recommendations for good funk songs to play at stlbx this year?

Can I Get That Funk With A Side of Blues?

[smunky]

i'll even throw in some biscuits and gravy and black coffee

[Greg Avakian]

Can I Get That Funk With A Side of Blues?

Yeah baby! Bluseum rocks!!!!
===============================================
I'd like to agree with those who say that having a mix of local and national DJs is great. It can be a real motivation to the local DJs to see(look through your collection) and hear (hang out for your sets) what the national DJs are about. Locals may not feel the same "presure" to constantly find new music, but they can benefit by learning about new music and taking those joyous risks in buying new music.
At the same time, I can not thank "local" (some of whom are "national") DJs for exposing me to some of the best music that I play! Also can't say enough thanks to all the local DJs who have gone CD shopping with me in the local CD store.
The worst thing about my trip to New Orleans was not getting to go shopping again with Keith (Big Cash)!
===============================================
I hesitate to post this, but here goes:

A lot of what I've read here pissed me off.

As for the whole question of planning the DJs and how the music is going over with the crowd, I say shame on the organizers if it sucks so bad that people start another room on their own. This may be disrespectful to the DJs, but they are basically getting what they dish out: "You ignore us, we'll ignore you". Plain and simple. Blaming dancers for going to the extreme level of setting up another room is really lazy and lame. Damn! If it's that bad, AN ORGANIZER should be paying attention and fixing the situation, not the people who paid to be there. I said the same thing about Paulette when there was no alternative and people made a protest room there 4(?) years ago.

I would think that the complaints/feelings about ALHC would be a lesson for EVERYONE.

Anyway, I'm a little sorry for being pissed off, I'm just getting sick of what I perceive to be snotty Organizers /DJs telling people what they should or shouldn't like. Give people options and let them alone!

[Mr Awesomer]

As for the whole question of planning the DJs and how the music is going over with the crowd, I say shame on the organizers if it sucks so bad that people start another room on their own. This may be disrespectful to the DJs, but they are basically getting what they dish out: "You ignore us, we'll ignore you". Plain and simple. Blaming dancers for going to the extreme level of setting up another room is really lazy and lame. Damn! If it's that bad, AN ORGANIZER should be paying attention and fixing the situation, not the people who paid to be there.

The only caveat Greg is that the organizers may have had no intention of creating the event as a means to please everyone. It's not lazy nor lame to have certain ideals for your event and want to follow through on them, especially if you've made it clear that such ideals will be attempted.

If you and dancers whom gravitate towards your music of choice were to show up at the California Balboa-Swing Championships, is it our responsibility to make sure you're happy when you start bitching about the music? NO!

If I and dancers whom gravitate towards my music of choice were to show up at the Austin Lindy Exchange, would it be their responsibility to make sure we're happy when we start bitching about the music? NO!

I believe these instances of people starting alternate rooms are just small groups of people who took it upon themselves to find their own entertainment when they've shown up to an event with different ideals then their own. More power to them and more power to the event organizers for sticking to their guns as well.

[Greg Avakian]

The only caveat Greg is that the organizers may have had no intention of creating the event as a means to please everyone. It's not lazy nor lame to have certain ideals for your event and want to follow through on them, especially if you've made it clear that such ideals will be attempted.

Agreed. Show me the money and I am right with you. Those fools shouldn't have gone to the exchange ...if they were clearly forwarned.

I was wise enough to know that Seattle is a fast dance town, so I didn't go. Not everyone has as much experience though, so that's not really fair.

I don't recall it as being advertised as a "faster" exchange or there being any real hype about the music like there is for say, the Binge. Before I stopped reading the yehoodi thread, there was much talk of the quality of blues dancing in Seattle. I don't think the website provided any info on the DJs. But then again, I didn't study the promotional material since I had already decided not to go.

Clearly, many people were not prepared for what happened including one of the organizers who posted that she suspects one of the DJs was trying to make some kind of point. Hell, if someone pulled that kind of -sabatage?- at my event, they'd be booted right out of the DJ both. How do you blame the dancers for that?

Most people wouldn't expect much "groove" at a "Bal Swing championship", would they? I mean that's pretty honest advertising going on in the title of the event, right?

As for Austin, they have been very strauight forward about the musical style.

So, I don't think the examples you use are very good ones. Because like you said, it's an advertising issue, isn't it?

Seattle and Austin are kick-ass exchanges that (from what I can tell) are pretty sure to sell out every year ...so why be shy?

I liked what you said about people sticking to their guns Reuben, but you gotta show what kind of guns you're sticking to.

Now, hoestly, if I'm wrong about this, I am sorry to use Seattle as an example. I only know a few people from there and I like every one of them. The Seattle exchange has got a great rep and my beef is not with it per se. But so far, what I've heard and what I've read does not sit well with me at all.

[main_stem]

I was wise enough to know that Seattle is a fast dance town, so I didn't go. Not everyone has as much experience though, so that's not really fair.

Sigh not this again. Oy, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse.

I don't recall it as being advertised as a "faster" exchange or there being any real hype about the music like there is for say, the Binge.

Bingo. Seattle is much more that just a fast dance city. Each DJ, and we used 17 from Seattle and the Pacific North West, has their own style. To say we are fast would be ot pigion hole all the DJs into one segment. That's why it wasn't done. If anythign we should have advertised it as diverse.

Clearly, many people were not prepared for what happened including one of the organizers who posted that she suspects one of the DJs was trying to make some kind of point. Hell, if someone pulled that kind of -sabatage?- at my event, they'd be booted right out of the DJ both. How do you blame the dancers for that?

We trust our DJs and do not try to dictate to them what they can and can not play. It's unfortunate that there were some people that took this too far but it happens.

As for blaming the dancers, well the persons who instigated the westie room were defnitely on a mission with something to prove. One was a DJ who got jilted because his way wasn't going to get paid for the weekend and backed out at the last minute. The other was someone who just wanted to dance to the same music he dances to back home. They purposley tried to hijack the night regardless that there were several other DJs spinning.

Further more one of these characters has been back and while at one of our regular dances burned a CD and tried to force the DJ to play it. He didn't even ask the DJ to play something for him. He walked in sat down and went to it on his lap top. Hell he wouldn't even aproach the DJ, he had a girl give it to him. And then through out the night had several girls continuously go up and ask to play music of the CD. (By the way it was a bunch of MJ and Lou Rawles, Yuck!)

Now, hoestly, if I'm wrong about this, I am sorry to use Seattle as an example. I only know a few people from there and I like every one of them. The Seattle exchange has got a great rep and my beef is not with it per se. But so far, what I've heard and what I've read does not sit well with me at all.

You know what come out next year; I'll even try get you a DJ spot. But until you've experienced it please stop using it as an example. You've got to remeber that there are two sides to every story and to bace your opinions only on hersay and the biased writing online is foolish.

-Kevin

PS If you come out I'm sure Jenel could be convinced to cook up some real Korean food for you too. Vegitarian of course.)

[julius]

When I went to Seattle in '02 it was the widest variety of music I have ever heard at a lindy hop event, bar none.

[GirlieGirl]

Kev, I don't think I could have said it better. Thanks.

[Greg Avakian]

My point is not to berate Seattle or it's exchange.

I'll PM/call the rest.

[Doberman]

one of the key and often overlooked aspects of all of this discussion is attitude (good or bad).

i have been to exchanges where i thought some of the dj'ing was subpar, but never felt the need to post my opinions publicly. If the entire event was dj'ed poorly, i think it is appropriate to give your feedback to the organizers so they can be aware of it. Maybe they were not trying to attract people with your tastes in music, maybe they were and failed, or maybe you are upset they didn't ask you to dj...who knows.

But whether you give your feedback privately or publish it publicly on national message boards, it is critical to try to be objective and understand your own bias and ego (esp if you are a dj yourself). this objectivity have been severely lacking in many of the posts i have seen about various exchanges, and along with hyperbole about the amount of certain kinds of music played (i.e. saying the whole exchange was a hammond b-3 convention, when one person played two songs in a set that had a b-3 in it), is ultimately divisive and destructive to the culture of music and dance we profess to love.

it makes us look bad when we make snooty comments that criticize others' skills, rather than doing something positive like starting a dialogue with a dj we think might be able to do a better job. heck, they might be trying their hardest, and would love some suggestions about music to play, and things to pay attention to. you might even learn something from the discussion too (gasp).

there are some dj's who don't give a rat's ass about the crowd, but they are few and far between, so let's give each other a little more credit and avoid the self-congratulatory sniping.


p.s. any recommendations for good funk songs to play at stlbx this year?

I'm gonna back up Smunky here (and some of the comments above) in saying that personal bias inherent in many DJ's colors their reviews of an event. And sometimes thier personal bias colors their actual experience at the event.

I wasn't able to attend the entire STLBX last year so I missed some of the sets that seemed to garner the most complaints (noting that the ONLY public complaints I saw ANYWHERE were from DJ's). I did spin a set at the Friday late nite. Did a good enough job that I was asked to come up to Canada and spin the next weekend at (I'm sorry if any of the organizers are here, but I honestly don't remember becuase I couldn't attend) maybe the Toronto exchange. I got called out on a forum for playing a set FULL of non-swing and non-blues music. Of course, for once in my life I actually kept a set list. When I posted it, and it was well over 50% blues of some sort and only 2 songs that could have been considered "non-swing" as is generally accepted (The Doors "People are Strange" & "Such a Night" by Elvis), there was some hemming and hawwing and "Well .... ummmmm"

Folks, if YOU don't like the set list, OK. That's your perogative. But let's be adult enough to realize that what YOU think may not be the general view. And let's not overstate and generalize about what's gone on. If the dance floor is consistantly full of people obviously enjoying themselves, claiming that "a whole lot of people" were upset about something or another just doesn't fly. Why is it that this "whole lot of people" always remain nameless and faceless, except for the disgruntled DJ who acts as a mouthpiece?



Oh, and regarding the STLBX not having enough "blues" music? I'd personally be going to a dance exchange billed as such expecting alot of music I could dance some sorta blues to. NOT to hear the entire genre of "blues" music in one weekend.

Smunky, hope that STLBX 2 went well for you guys. Sorry I couldn't make it down this year.

[Doberman]

With regards to local vs. national DJ's at an exchange, here's my view:

I generally take the exchanges as an opportunity for people to get a sampling of the local scene. You come to the Chicago exchange (November 7 - 9, 2003 ) to experience Chicago right? Does someone from New York really come to Chicago to hear a San Francisco DJ spin? (If you do, why don't you just go to San Fran?) Ergo, I'm in favor of using local talent to it's fullest.

We've got alot of DJ's in Chicago who spin venues with at least some regularity. Most of us have widely differing styles all of which would be fairly well recieved by a mass audience. I've always advocated getting everyone local a set at a decent time so that they can get some national exposure. The same in other cities. I know most of the big Swing cities get labeled one way or another (Fast, bluesy, funk, etc.) but that generalization doesn't really apply anywhere I've ever been.

When you've got all your good regular local talent prime sets, you then fill in with out-of-towners. (According to ability or whatever. Though that'd mean Falty would always get the "before the band starts when no one is there" sets like he got at WCLX last year. )