Complain about my DJing

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fredo
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#31 Post by fredo » Thu May 29, 2008 9:45 am

Here's Swifty's set list from that night. Now I dont have to go to two places to talk about it.


10-11pm
1. Lionel Hampton - Drinkin' Wine Spo-Dee-O-Dee (3:24) [132]
2. Jimmy Witherspoon - Good Rockin' Tonight (4:15) [155]
3. Johnny Hodges - Something To Pat Your Foot To (2:55) [172]
4. Tiny Bradshaw - Walkin' The Chalk Line (2:42) [153]
5. Louis Armstrong & His All Stars - Some Day (4:38) [158]
6. Alberta Hunter - Sweet Georgia Brown (4:12) [132]
7. Lucky Millinder - Savoy (3:05) [164]
8. Kansas City Band - King Porter Stomp (4:38) [173]
9. Joe Salzano & The Blue Devils - Shout and Feel It (2:44) [206]
10. Woody Herman - Blues Downstairs (2:49) [114]
11. The Three Sounds - Oh Well Oh Well (3:44) [140]
12. Jay McShann - You, Cindy Lou (2:49) [120]
13. Jimmy Rushing - My Bucket's Got a Hole in It (5:34) [161]
14. Fats Waller - All That Meat And No Potatoes (2:46) [143]
15. Slim Gaillard & Slam Stewart - Look Out (2:55) [187]
16. Big Joe Turner - Careless Love (2:53) [115]
17. Ella Fitzgerald & Duke Ellington - Mack the Knife (4:56) [168]
18. George Gee and The Jump, Jivin' Wailers - Shufflin' and Rollin' (3:35) [147] * Birthday Jam

12am-1am
19. Duke Ellington - Things Ain't What They Used To Be (3:02) [120]
20. Wingy Manone & His Orchestra - A Little Door, A Little Lock, A Little Key (2:54) [176]
21. Horace Henderson and his Orchestra - Smooth Sailing (2:57) [161]
22. Bunny Berigan - Davenport Blues (3:21) [126]
23. Charlie Barnet - Afternoon of a Moax (Shake, Rattle 'n Roll) (3:27) [130]
24. Teri Thornton - Salty Mama (2:43) [142]
25. Count Basie - Sent for you Yesterday (And Here You Come Today) (2:54) [168]
26. Jimmie Lunceford - Le Jazz Hot (2:41) [142]
27. Ella Fitzgerald - Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home? (3:26) [128]
28. Louis Prima - Basin Street Blues/When It's Sleepy Time Down South (4:13) [114/166]
29. Lavay Smith & Her Red Hot Skillet Lickers - Hootie Blues (4:06) [120]
30. Barbara Morrison - Going To Chicago (5:33) [124]
31. Jess Stacy & The Famous Sidemen - Blues For Otis Ferguson (3:43) [126]
32. John Pizzarelli - It's Only a Paper Moon (2:35) [153]
33. Ella Fitzgerald & Her Quartet - Frim Fram Sauce (3:44) [100]
Last edited by fredo on Thu May 29, 2008 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Toon Town Dave
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#32 Post by Toon Town Dave » Thu May 29, 2008 10:50 am

Swifty's DJ'ing sucks ... because he doesn't DJ in my local scene. :P

Nice set.

What's the sound quality like on that Tiny Bradshaw track? I have some of his stuff and I find it sounds a little tinny compared to other artists' rhythm and blues recordings from the same era.

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fredo
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#33 Post by fredo » Thu May 29, 2008 11:38 am

Considering I wasn't there that night, I've never DJed at Frim Fram, I've only danced in NYC once, and I've only heard Swifty DJ maybe twice, I feel I am qualified to say absolutely nothing about these set lists that I would say was based on evidence.

However, I'll make a few comments just to get this thread back on target.


set 1 average tempo: 152 bpm

set 2 average tempo: 137 bpm

So the first set was from 10pm - 11pm, which for a regular dance is about the time everyone starts showing up and the dance really gets kickin. Personally, I enjoy walking into the dance when the energy is high, and that sets my mood to have a good time for the night. A string of songs like this does exactly that:

6. Alberta Hunter - Sweet Georgia Brown (4:12) [132]
7. Lucky Millinder - Savoy (3:05) [164]
8. Kansas City Band - King Porter Stomp (4:38) [173]
9. Joe Salzano & The Blue Devils - Shout and Feel It (2:44) [206]

But, then you mellowed it out a bit for the rest of the hour. I would've made another energy push before the end of that hour, assuming the crowd was into the first wave of energy, then ended with the birthday jam as you did, which would give people a chance to chill out again for a song.

The second set was from 12am - 1am, which depending on if this is a week night or not can be a variable time for energy levels. Looking at the average bpm it tells me that people were mellowing out a bit. The use of bigbands with solid energy songs looks like a nice way to keep up the party without losing people who dont want to dance fast anymore. However, even though it's the end of the night, there're usually at least a few hardcore lindyhoppers around who are happy to tire themselves out to one last hoppin number before they go home, which didnt seem to happen on this night.

All in all it looks like a solid set. Good mix of vocals and instrumentals. A bit slow over all for what I'm used to, but again, I have no idea what it was like there that night, so this may have been entirely appropriate.

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djstarr
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#34 Post by djstarr » Fri May 30, 2008 2:33 pm

fredo wrote:All in all it looks like a solid set. Good mix of vocals and instrumentals. A bit slow over all for what I'm used to, but again, I have no idea what it was like there that night, so this may have been entirely appropriate.
ha ha. I don't think I've ever danced at Frim Fram, but all my friends from Seattle who have been there consider it very slow in comparison to what is average bpm here.

Swifty is awesome! I still remember him rocking Rhythmic Arts with a soul set a few years ago. I enjoyed all the kickass lindyhoppers showing off their WCS skills, which they had pleny of.

And I appreciate you looking for feedback Swifty - I think it's really hard to get from people directly.

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#35 Post by djstarr » Fri May 30, 2008 2:42 pm

fredo wrote:nice idea for the complaint thread, though even if you say "hit me" most people will still pull punches on a public forum. I usually just wait for someone else in my scene to tell me what they hear people saying on the sidelines....usually Brenda wont hesitate to tell me when her friends prefer her deejaying over mine. :cry: haha
Whoa...... I need a little app that emails me when someone mentions me in a thread!

Sorry if I hurt your feelings Freddie, but you made up for it by winning the DJ battle!

To put this in context, it wasn't about whether my friend liked my dj'ing better than Freddies. It was more about not having a lot [or any] post war groovier sounds being played in Seattle. I have a set of friends who don't come out dancing anymore who love mid-tempo groove to dance to. They aren't going to lindyhop over 200 bpm, they really don't like pre-war sides etc. etc.

So my friend called and asked me who was Dj'ing the Century that night and I told her Freddie, and she didn't want to come out. I went out and listened pretty closely to Freddie's set. Almost all pre 1960; hardly any vocals, but a good mix of tempos, and the floor was full the entire night. I certainly couldn't say anything bad about his Dj'ing.

But it's not Freddie particularly she doesn't like; even if I had been dj'ing I'm not sure she would have come out just because she doesn't know anyone in the scene anymore, has to work hard for dances, and has to dance harder than she wants to!

Now with Kevin Tamura not dj'ing so much any more, I'm probably the only DJ left who would spin Diana Krall or Barbara Morrison during a set and it does not help my coolness factor in Seattle.

And I am trying to make my own sets better since there is so much DJ competition in Seattle now, so I do really appreciate Swifty starting this thread.

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djstarr
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#36 Post by djstarr » Fri May 30, 2008 2:50 pm

oh and the reason this came up was after listening to Freddie's set and liking it, I asked him what type of request would he honor from my friend if she came out to his set - i.e. if she asked for a groovier song what would you play? etc. I was trying to see if I could give any good advice to my friend on getting some music she likes that she could dance to.

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fredo
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#37 Post by fredo » Fri May 30, 2008 3:11 pm

Brenda, no feelings are hurt by someone mentioning what they like. That's up to individuals. I appreciate that we could even have that conversation.

I think your assessment of the issues here in Seattle are pretty accurate. Groovy swing is definitely not en vogue here right now. The only other regualr DJ that will spin it with any frequency is Mark Kihara, and that's because he's really good at mixing it up and playing a lot of different types of swing.

One way of mixing it up that kinda works in two ways is to mix in contemporary swing bands that play with a pre-war attitude. It gives great sound quality, with enough of a classic sound for those that like that, and since they're contemporary musicians they have a modern tinge to them naturally (not all, but some) that is often a bit looser than the pre-war era musicians. (not to say that pre-war era was rigid on the whole, b/c i dont think it was)

Looking at Swifty's set I'd call out the modern choices he made that night:

8. Kansas City Band - King Porter Stomp (4:38) [173]
9. Joe Salzano & The Blue Devils - Shout and Feel It (2:44) [206]
18. George Gee and The Jump, Jivin' Wailers - Shufflin' and Rollin' (3:35) [147]
29. Lavay Smith & Her Red Hot Skillet Lickers - Hootie Blues (4:06) [120]
32. John Pizzarelli - It's Only a Paper Moon (2:35) [153]

Of course there are many others to choose from, many of which are named in other threads. Another way you can sort for a modern/classic hybrid is to look at recordings from the big bands in the 50s and 60s (ex. Newport)

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djstarr
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#38 Post by djstarr » Fri May 30, 2008 4:35 pm

Thanks Freddie!

Yes, that's why I like the New Orleans Jazz Vipers so much these days; modern recording, pre-war feel; and with vocals....

For something that may be missing in Swifty's set list that I think is missing in a lot of Seattle sets these days is a healthy dose of late 30's/40'
s big band - i.e. Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman or Gene Krupa.

Jonathan Stout and Hillary Alexander dj'ed at Camp Jitterbug, and they played pretty much all big band tracks. I hadn't heard a set like that in Seattle in quite a while, and I'm going to try mixing up more of that genre in my sets; I think that will also help me play not as many vocal tracks as I normally do.

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#39 Post by Nate Dogg » Fri May 30, 2008 9:12 pm

Venues and crowds are so different, if the dancers were digging his set, that is all that really matters.

Keeping it groovy might be exactly what works for certain DJs and scenes at certain points in time. Focusing on classic swing probably works at other times and places. I could post playlists and ask for feedback, but if my fellow DJs were not there to see the venue and crowd, how could the feedback really be that helpful?

It is not like anybody is really playing cutting edge material. We usually play proven songs with dancers from the various styles of swing/jazz/blues that dancers like, lesser known cuts that we hope will become more proven favorites, newer tracks in the style of the older material, etc... We have limits in what we can get away with. We can only push the boundaries a little bit. For example, groovy swing still swings, you can only mix in so much soul, west coast, etc... into a set before people begin to wonder (or you have to re-label your set as something different (i.e, a soul set, west coast, blues).

The trick is to keep finding music that is new to you that keeps you motivated, but that music is not that different in stuff that you already play. In the end, most dancers don't know the difference anyway. Over time, DJing for dancers can get less exciting for most of us, what we actually play for dancers is not nearly as broad as the music we listen the rest of the time. I am seven years in, DJing for my crowd is more science than art, it is a job that I try to perform in a professional manner.

Now, when I get roped into DJing weddings, that is work, I really have to be on my feet.

Nathan

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Swifty
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#40 Post by Swifty » Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:37 pm

Toon Town Dave wrote:Swifty's DJ'ing sucks ... because he doesn't DJ in my local scene. :P

Niotce set.

What's the sound quality like on that Tiny Bradshaw track? I have some of his stuff and I find it sounds a little tinny compared to other artists' rhythm and blues recordings from the same era.
It's on the Proper 2CD set, the sound quality is pretty good overall and a set that I frequently recommend if you like that style (which I do a great deal).

A comment on tempos - I noticed looking at BPMs afterward that it was a particularly slow night, even for Fram (which is notoriously slow). Devona was the other DJ and tried pushing the tempos as well but the floor just wasn't having it.

If you're unfamiliar with the Fram format, it has DJs alternating hour-long sets. I had the 2nd and 4th (last) sets. That last hour is always interesting - sometimes people want slower stuff like that night, other times the floor is hungry to go all-out for the rest of the night, and still other times they want more of a Swing & Soul feel. It all depends on who shows up (and when) and it always keeps me on my toes. Incidentally, it's a Thursday night.

Brenda - Hamp, Lucky Millinder, McShann, Lunceford, Wingy Manone, & Bunny Berigan I think are all pre-'44. But I'd have to double-check. Not being defensive, just putting it out there. Not necessarily a "Big Band" sound though - you're right - it's an interesting observation that I'll keep in mind.

That's a tricky thing going just on one setlist, artists I frequently play like Shaw and Goodman didn't get much play that night. There are several set lists from Frim Fram of mine in this thread.

It's always interesting for me to hear other people's general opinion of what they consider my "style" and how it compares to my own perception. Thanks for the feedback everyone. That said - I agree with Nathan and the Yehoodi thread was started with the target audience being Fram regulars and others that hear me frequently that have general impressions of my DJing. Of course since it's so hard to get feedback of any kind that's helpful I am obviously open to any and all analysis here on SwingDJs as well. :)
"Dance like it hurts. Love like you need money. Work when people are watching."

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#41 Post by djstarr » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:45 pm

Swifty wrote:Brenda - Hamp, Lucky Millinder, McShann, Lunceford, Wingy Manone, & Bunny Berigan I think are all pre-'44. But I'd have to double-check. Not being defensive, just putting it out there. Not necessarily a "Big Band" sound though - you're right - it's an interesting observation that I'll keep in mind.
Hey Ryan! Yes, I was a little hesitant to post my observation because you do have lots of pre WWII tracks on that list, but you hit the nail on the head - the "big band" sound I'm thinking of is certainly a lot different from Millinder, McShann and Wingy Manone.

It was such a contrast listening to Jonathan and Hillary's sets at CJ because Seattle is very much a trad/janky fest and I found their music to be complimentary yet a nice break. I think it's easy to get into a rut stylistically even with good music.

One of the Proper Box sets that has been languishing on my "to be catalogued" table is Gene Krupa, I think I will sift through that this weekend. I just spun his version of "St. Louis Blues", it starts out very tangoesque then goes into nice uptempo swing.

Come out to Seattle sometime - I don't think you've been out here yet!

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#42 Post by CafeSavoy » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:25 pm

djstarr wrote:
Swifty wrote:Brenda - Hamp, Lucky Millinder, McShann, Lunceford, Wingy Manone, & Bunny Berigan I think are all pre-'44. But I'd have to double-check. Not being defensive, just putting it out there. Not necessarily a "Big Band" sound though - you're right - it's an interesting observation that I'll keep in mind.
Hey Ryan! Yes, I was a little hesitant to post my observation because you do have lots of pre WWII tracks on that list, but you hit the nail on the head - the "big band" sound I'm thinking of is certainly a lot different from Millinder, McShann and Wingy Manone. yet!
Interesting observations. Do y'all characterize "big band" by the sound or the size of the ensemble? I haven't looked into the particular tracks from the bands posted above but many of those bands were fairly large units. Although the music did change from the late 30s into the early 40s and then some more by the late 40s. And quite a few of the bands got smaller too; albeit they were often still as large as the bands from the early 30s.

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#43 Post by djstarr » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:19 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:Interesting observations. Do y'all characterize "big band" by the sound or the size of the ensemble?
Hey Rayned! Tough question; when I think of "big band" I usually think of Basie, Ellington, Woody Herman etc. and I'm thinking more in terms of rhythm and arrangements more than size, so I guess I'd have to answer your question with "sound".

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#44 Post by kitkat » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:44 am

If I'm trying to just have a conversation w/ simple referents, I mean "sound" when I say it.

I suppose there are times when the conversation delves more into particulars and I use it to mean "size."



There's no doubt that my inaccurate use of the term leads to some confusion ("So...this Michael Buble track backed up by a big band is what you're looking for?"), but I can always explain from there.

Usually I'm trying to get people playing too old of stuff to move later, so using it to describe "sound" works fine as shorthand.

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#45 Post by Cyrano de Maniac » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:34 am

Sound.

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