Tip the DJ Commercials

Tips and techniques of the trade

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Lawrence
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#16 Post by Lawrence » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 am

First, we do not find it offensive to be paid for our efforts. As every one has acknowledged, we bear a great deal of the economic burden of "the scene" through buying our music that we play for a pittance at dances. We are suckers for doing so, but most of us know it and accept the burden, nonetheless.

The problem is with interrupting our sets with commercials. I have HBO, Sirius and TIVO expressly because I HATE commercial interruptions. Same with avoiding PBS during fundraising drives. I would much rather just pay up front and not be hit up for money again and again. I don't even like ordinary event-style announcements interrupting "the flow."

Second, you seem to take a rather uncommonly aggressive position toward soliciting tips from dancers (which you are free to do), but then you defend it by making it sound like you are the hapless victim of the greedy, all-powerful Bar owners who won't give you a penny. However, you have MUCH more negotiating leverage against a venue than you do with individual dancers. The market for bars is very, very glutted on the supply side, and competition is fierce on off-nights. We thus have negotiated arrangements with bars in Austin and in Chicago where, in return for bringing in a lot of captive customers for a dance on an off-night (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Sunday), we get the door, they get the bar sales. Even though dancers are not ideal bar customers, many bars are more than willing to do so because otherwise the bar is completely empty.

Now, the ideal dance venue is a big empty room with a nice floor where you charge at the door and that's the last time anyone thinks about money. But you are not the victim of the bar where you need there are alternatives to injecting commercials into your sets. And even if you do inject commercials in you sets, it is not a mortal sin. It just isn't done anywhere else in the country so ar as I know. I suspect it would turn people off, but if it works, more power to you.
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Lindyguy
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#17 Post by Lindyguy » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:28 pm

I haven't DJed a bar scene in a while but I've always been able to set up a door cover. Usually, you can comp a couple dancers in and have them cover a shift at the door.

I would be embarrassed to ask for money to play music. I'm not saying that it's offensive to make money DJing, because I do, but I handle the financial end when I set up the event or gig. Then there is no need to hound people or guilt them into putting in the kitty.

On the pre-recorded side of things, I toyed with pre-recording my announcements and stopped doing it after the first time. People were looking at the DJ booth wondering where I was (I was dancing the previous song) and also, it was really wierd being on the dance floor while I made announcements. I'm not saying it doesn't work for others but I figure if I'm there, I can do it live much better.
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#18 Post by Toon Town Dave » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:29 pm

I agree Terry, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Once of the things paid professional DJs do to earn their money is to make announcements or otherwise use their mic skills to enhance the experience for the audience. Pre-recorded fundraising messages are like saying "I want your money but I don't want to work for it". Even the PBS fundraising drives have really people rather than pre-recorded PSAs asking for the money.

Whether you're asking for tips or just making regular announcements, good mic skills will elevate your value as a DJ. That's why our local ballroom clubs pay $500 a night for a DJ who they don't even trust to select the music.

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#19 Post by Mystere88 » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:39 pm

Thank you for setting me straight Lawrence. I hope I didn't come off at the whiny bitch.

I could leverage with the bar if it was my venue, but I only guest DJ. I'm working on having my own venue in the future, where I could have all these things set up, and wouldn't have to deal with such things.

I guess I'm amazed to find out the DJs who posted to this discussion don't get tips.

Well, I will plow forward with my commercials idea, and eventually let everyone know. Thanks again for all the feedback.

Adam

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#20 Post by Mr Awesomer » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:50 pm

Poster: Here's my idea, Z. I would love to hear what everyone thinks about it.
Every replier: Bad idea, maybe you should do X & Y instead.
Poster: Thanks everyone. I'm going to do Z anyway.

:roll:
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Lawrence
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#21 Post by Lawrence » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:03 pm

Mr Awesomer wrote:Poster: Here's my idea, Z. I would love to hear what everyone thinks about it.
Every replier: Bad idea, maybe you should do X & Y instead.
Poster: Thanks everyone. I'm going to do Z anyway.

:roll:
After reviewing this thread in amazement a month later, my reaction remains the same as when Reuben first posted it: ditto, exactly.

It is as if the conversation never happened, even though it did happen, and he now "should know better" because it happened.
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#22 Post by Lars » Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:12 pm

Ok,
I'm going to weigh in on this because it's the venue where I'm the DJ coordinator and primary DJ for the last three years. At this venue the owner would rather not charge a cover so we started using a tip the DJ method. We average between 50 to 100 dancers a Thursday night and figured if each person threw in a buck or two the DJ would make a decent evening of it. This has been met with varying degrees of success. I usually, in the course of making some other announcement, remind people that we play for tips at Hot Water, period. I think that making brief, clear, prerecorded announcements is an excellent idea and will be looking forward to hearing them some Thurs. evening Adam.
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#23 Post by Eyeball » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:57 am

This emphasis on "pre-recorded announcements" puzzles me.

Why are they pre-recorded? Why not just do them live and inject some personality into the proceedings?

When I tip someone, I like to do it because they have done something above and beyond their duties. A pre-recorded announcement to 'tip the dj' would just put me off as being too lame to merit any attention.

If the "owner would rather not charge a cover" then the DJ winds up being the fall guy.

Everyone is exploiting the next person down the food chain.
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#24 Post by zzzzoom » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:16 am

Why not ask the owner if YOU can charge a nominal cover charge?

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#25 Post by Lawrence » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:02 pm

Lars wrote:Ok,
I'm going to weigh in on this because it's the venue where I'm the DJ coordinator and primary DJ for the last three years. At this venue the owner would rather not charge a cover so we started using a tip the DJ method. We average between 50 to 100 dancers a Thursday night and figured if each person threw in a buck or two the DJ would make a decent evening of it. This has been met with varying degrees of success. I usually, in the course of making some other announcement, remind people that we play for tips at Hot Water, period. I think that making brief, clear, prerecorded announcements is an excellent idea and will be looking forward to hearing them some Thurs. evening Adam.
Go for it,
Again, the problem is that he asked everyone for their opinion, everyone said it was a bad idea, and he flippantly said he was going to do it, anyway.

This is called "market research." If the *DJs* find it bothersome and tacky, and if the *DJs* who would benefit from it would prefer a nominal cover charge, then I suggest that gives you an indicator of what your customers really think.

It's not the end of the world, and you would offend me far worse if you constantly played bad music instead of a few brief tacky commercials, but keep in mind that you are completely ignoring the *solicited* advice of your fellow DJs by doing so.
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#26 Post by fredo » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:16 pm

Heaven forbid anyone act against this forum's popular opinion...

I thought the forum was for discussion, not handing down "do's and don'ts" and proclamations that someone "should know better". He wanted our opinion, we gave it to him, he acted on his own thinking...

...how dare he.

That said, I wouldn't want to hear recorded commercials at a dance either, but I don't dance at his venue so I can sleep OK tonight.

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#27 Post by Lawrence » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:41 pm

fredo wrote:Heaven forbid anyone act against this forum's popular opinion...

I thought the forum was for discussion, not handing down "do's and don'ts" and proclamations that someone "should know better". He wanted our opinion, we gave it to him, he acted on his own thinking...

...how dare he.
That does not surmise our opinion. (or at least not mine).
That said, I wouldn't want to hear recorded commercials at a dance either, but I don't dance at his venue so I can sleep OK tonight.
That does.

As I wrote, "it isn't the end of the world," and we certainly are not laying down moral imperatives. It just struck me odd that he would come to the forum to ask everyone's opinion, everyone disagreed (against our own self interest, at that), and he went on his merry way completely unaffected. It's as if he came just to get justification so he could use that justification locally, and then ignored what we said once he did not get it.

Even so, it is just odd and socially-awkward, not the moral equivalent of rape or murder. If I gave a different impression, consider it supplemented.
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#28 Post by Mystere88 » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:09 pm

I guess I shoudl first say I am out of practice of writing, and my intent is not conveyed well.

I was going into this idea that I would, no matter what, proceed to record my own commercials for tipping the DJ. I greatly appreciate everyone's frank opinion and discussion.

I was hoping that we, as a community of DJs, would share such recordings, as to help each other out. I would like to have other voices make such recordings.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Last Thursday, I used my prerecorded commercials for tipping the DJ, and perhaps even to my surprise, they were met with great acclaim. They made people laugh, they made people pay attention, and damnit THEY WORKED! It was a low night, with hardly 50 people there, and nearly everyone there gave $1. Within a minute of the first commercial being played, over 10 people came over and TIPPED THE DJ.

I tested a few on a friend, and she mentioned that this method will probably get people's attention better than actual announcements. People absolutely loved them.

Now I have the challenge to continue to make new commercials, that will out do the previous. You can have fun, using sound effects, say stupid things, make a 30 second bit that is ENTERTAINING. You can use music that you can't spin for dancers, so as to get people's attention. I'm having fun, and I really didn't get any odd looks from anyone.

I'm not in this for the money, so thats why we don't pursue getting a bar cut or charging people. I just wanted to pursue a different way of thinking about what we do.

I HIGHLY ENCOURAGE those DJS who can get tips to try this out. If you want me to send you some of my commercials, please feel free to email me at brewcityhops@yahoo.com, and I'll gladly share.

Thanks everyone for your honest opinions regarding this issue; it has brought out a number of different elements.

Peace,

Adam

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#29 Post by Lawrence » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:33 pm

Mystere88 wrote:I'm not in this for the money, so thats why we don't pursue getting a bar cut or charging people. I just wanted to pursue a different way of thinking about what we do.
Here's a different way of thinking about what we do. Instead of spending time recording commercials designed to do exactly what you claim you are not "in it" to do, why not spend that time listening to and studying your music so you can do a better job as a DJ?

Gunning for tips makes it seem like you ARE in it for the money MUCH more than if you charged at the door like everyone else does: lots of creative juices flowing to go against the grain. And it only looks worse when you brag about how effective they are.

Also, just because some people bought lots of shyte off infomercials when they first came out due to the novelty of the idea, it does not mean the infomercials do not annoy the hell out of the vast majority of people.

Again, it's not even close to the end of the world, but you might want to reconsider it.
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#30 Post by Lars » Sat Oct 13, 2007 6:27 am

Lawrence wrote:
Gunning for tips makes it seem like you ARE in it for the money MUCH more than if you charged at the door like everyone else does: lots of creative juices flowing to go against the grain. And it only looks worse when you brag about how effective they are.
I've got to disagree with you Lawrence,
If we charged a cover the DJ would get at least $100 for their night's work (The best I've ever done playing for tips is around $60 on a night that was absolutely packed and would have grossed $300 or more based on a modest cover.)
In Milwaukee most swing dances are in bars or halls where there is a bar business, the owners do not want to charge a cover as this would put off their regulars and as long as they make enough off of drinks they keep having us back. I have never heard a negative comment regarding tipping in almost three years at Hot Water but I have found that if I don't gently "remind" the crowd a couple of times I end up with only $15 or $20 bucks in the jar (and that might not even cover my bar tab). Last Thurs. I was not very vocal (only one brief pitch at the end of an announcement of an upcoming Lindy series) and I ended up with $22 in the tip jar, the bar tab was $15 so we're obviously not in it for the money.
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