Copyright extension in the UK

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sonofvu
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Copyright extension in the UK

#1 Post by sonofvu » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:15 pm

This link is a story about musicians wanting to extend the copyright protection from 70 years to 95 years. If they are successful will this affect the music that can be purchased? I ask this because a lot of the classic swing that I have is either from a foreign release or I bought it from someone over there. Someone told me that the reason for that is this copyright law. Will the UK have less music if this is successful?[/url]
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Bob the Builder
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#2 Post by Bob the Builder » Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:58 pm

The UK copy right laws are a lot less severe then the US and Australian Copy right laws. This is why currently there are so many box sets coming out of the UK that cost so little.
My guess is they want to extend them to be similar to the US.

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Eyeball
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#3 Post by Eyeball » Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:19 pm

We saved their asses in WW2 and this is how they repay us?!?!?!?!
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#4 Post by Haydn » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:04 am

I wondered how this story relates to 1930s American Jazz Recordings?
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6216152.stm)

I got the impression that a lot of Jazz reissue companies use recordings that are free of copyright (and that's one reason they can sell them cheap). But according to this story, there are two types of copyright - performers and writers. In the UK at the moment, performers copywright is 50 years, and writers lifetime plus 70 years.

So, take a jazz record written and recorded in 1935, where the writer died in, say 1970. The performers' copyright expired in 1985, but the writer's copyright doesn't expire until 2040. Apparently that's the current law in the UK.

But the jazz I'm talking about was from the USA. Is writer's copywright law similar in the USA? If so, how do Jazz reissue companies like Proper get round it (Proper is a British company)? Or doesn't writer's copyright apply? Anyone know the answers?

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#5 Post by Haydn » Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:41 am

Eyeball wrote:We saved their asses in WW2 and this is how they repay us?!?!?!?!
I think the English Channel and the RAF's success in the 'Battle of Britain' in 1940 saved Britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/ ... y_01.shtml

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think America had entered the war at that stage :wink:

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Eyeball
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#6 Post by Eyeball » Sun Dec 10, 2006 10:05 am

Haydn wrote:
Eyeball wrote:We saved their asses in WW2 and this is how they repay us?!?!?!?!
I think the English Channel and the RAF's success in the 'Battle of Britain' in 1940 saved Britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/ ... y_01.shtml

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think America had entered the war at that stage :wink:
2 words - lend / lease.

Wow....nothing in the time line in the link you posted. Nothing except anecdotes, at best, on the bbb.co.uk site.

Also the US sent scads of money to our brothers and sisters in the UK, not to mention all the Americans who enlisted in British services before the USA entered the war, plus all the British children who were sent to the US and taken in by friends, family and strangers so that they would be out of harm's way.

Plus - Food, supplies, medicine, etc.
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#7 Post by Haydn » Sun Dec 10, 2006 11:52 am

Eyeball wrote:
Haydn wrote:
Eyeball wrote:We saved their asses in WW2 and this is how they repay us?!?!?!?!
I think the English Channel and the RAF's success in the 'Battle of Britain' in 1940 saved Britain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_britain
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/ ... y_01.shtml

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think America had entered the war at that stage :wink:
2 words - lend / lease.

Wow....nothing in the time line in the link you posted. Nothing except anecdotes, at best, on the bbb.co.uk site.

Also the US sent scads of money to our brothers and sisters in the UK, not to mention all the Americans who enlisted in British services before the USA entered the war, plus all the British children who were sent to the US and taken in by friends, family and strangers so that they would be out of harm's way.

Plus - Food, supplies, medicine, etc.
Lend Lease ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend_lease

I am sure this helped the overall Allied campaign a lot. But it was the water between us and France, and the strength of the British Air Force (RAF) that 'saved our asses' from the German invasion in the first place. Without the channel and the RAF, the Germans would have occupied Britain.

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#8 Post by Eyeball » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:22 pm

The EC (English Channel) and the RAF surely helped (though too bad about the British Channel Islands being occupied by the Nazis for 5 years. Amazing story which I had never heard of until I saw the docu-drama series "Island At War"), but, not being a scholar being a given, I don't think that the EC and the RAF by themselves were a strong enough combo to do the trick.

The RAF and then the USAAF began conducting alternating air raids over Germany devastating the country. IIRC, the RAF was going in during the day and the USAAF was going in at night. Constant bombardment.

You guys simply did not have enough men or resources to pull it off w/o Allied help...mostly US.

My Dad was stuck in Greece when the Nazis overran that country in less than one month. He remembered still the Luftwaffe attacking the Greek islands for the first time on 4/1/41. It is the only time in my life that I have ever heard him begin to cry as he recounted part of it recently. Nazis hit Greece and Yugoslavia on the same day. Greece had a small Army and no help there except for a congintent of British soldiers who stayed for a couple of weeks and then left. They knew it was hopeless, the way they knew that trying to defend the Channel Islands was hopeless, and they simply could not spare the men and material to wage war in an area they knew they would lose.

Point being - the UK just did not have enough men and material in service to save themselves w.o help.

Look at Dunkirk. Amazing story. Brit civilians out here in boats and rowboats and all sorts of anything that could float -sailboats, trawlers, yachts..all out there to save their guys in uniformed service and pulling them from the water. Incredible sacrifice - the heart of British bravery in action. There were just not enough people in service and the naval forces and ships to go get those guys on their own.

Anyway....hell of a time.
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#9 Post by Eyeball » Sun Dec 10, 2006 2:31 pm

From the Wikipedia link -

(btw - payback day seems to be the end of the month this year. Check in the mail?)

Lend-Lease was the major United States program 1941-1945 which enabled the United States of America to supply Britain, the Soviet Union, China and other Allied nations with vast amounts of war material (matériel). The supplies were given away with no repayment, so the U.S. would avoid the mistake it made after World War I of demanding later repayment. It began in March 1941, nine months before Pearl Harbor. It ended soon after V-J Day, on 2 September 1945.

A total of $50.1 billion worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain..........................................

Lend-Lease came into existence with the passage of the Lend-Lease Act of 11 March 1941, which permitted the President of the United States to "sell, transfer title to, exchange, lease, lend, or otherwise dispose of, to any such government [whose defense the President deems vital to the defense of the United States] any defense article". Roosevelt approved US $1 billion in Lend-Lease aid to Britain on 30 October 1941. Britain did not need to pay any money (it did pay for supplies in the pipeline when Lend-Lease was terminated in 1945).

Earlier, there was an entirely separate program in 1940, the Destroyers for Bases Agreement whereby 50 USN destroyers were transferred to the Royal Navy and the Royal Canadian Navy in exchange for base rights in the Caribbean and Newfoundland.


Lend-Lease was a critical factor in the eventual success of the Allies in World War II, particularly in the early years when the United States was not directly involved and the entire burden of the fighting fell on other nations, notably those of the Commonwealth...........

Large quantities of goods were in Britain or in transit when Washington suddenly and unexpectedly terminated Lend-Lease on 2 September 1945. These were sold to Britain for about 10 cents on the dollar with payment to be stretched out for 50 years at 2% interest. [3] Debate in the Commons on 28 February 2002 shows that Britain expected to complete its repayment of its monetary debt to the USA on 31 December 2006, over 61 years from the conclusion of World War II:.....
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la musette
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#10 Post by la musette » Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:53 pm

oh geez people- it's a copyright thread! MUSIC!

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#11 Post by Haydn » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:01 pm

Oh alright then, let's get back to copyright :roll:

Does anyone know how current copyright law applies to cheap reissues of 1930s Jazz?

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#12 Post by Eyeball » Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:40 pm

What? We can't conduct 2 different conversations at one time? I am chewing gum here and am typing, too.

Haydn - if you want to continue the exchange of information, let's move it somewhere so that the French are not offended. :wink:

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#13 Post by Bob the Builder » Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:08 pm

Haydn wrote:Oh alright then, let's get back to copyright :roll:

Does anyone know how current copyright law applies to cheap reissues of 1930s Jazz?
It's difficult enough keep up with Australian laws not alone UK laws.
Here is the British Copyright Council website. To really understand the laws you will just need to do several hours of reading and studying.

Brian :D
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#14 Post by Haydn » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:13 am

Eyeball wrote:What? We can't conduct 2 different conversations at one time? I am chewing gum here and am typing, too.

Haydn - if you want to continue the exchange of information, let's move it somewhere so that the French are not offended. :wink:
I'd be happy to continue the WWII debate elsewhere. How about here ... http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/

Send me a private message if you agree.

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#15 Post by Haydn » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:18 am

Bob the Builder wrote:
Haydn wrote:Oh alright then, let's get back to copyright :roll:

Does anyone know how current copyright law applies to cheap reissues of 1930s Jazz?
It's difficult enough keep up with Australian laws not alone UK laws.
Here is the British Copyright Council website. To really understand the laws you will just need to do several hours of reading and studying.

Brian :D
It's not just British copyright law, it's how copyright in general applies to old Jazz recordings. I'm sure I've seen this discussed here before.

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