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And we thought lindy hoppers are a tough crowd

Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:40 pm
by CafeSavoy
dj and music guide
From a dancer's point of view, a good DJ can beat a band almost anytime, because a good DJ can choose from hundreds of fantastic dance songs recorded by the world's best musicians. But a band is always limited by its musical ability, its relatively small repertoire, its tendency to play songs longer than 5 - 6 minutes, and its limited ability to change songs based on the dancer's preferences hour by hour. Most bands only have a few really great songs. When they play a set, dancers are usually happy with only 1 or 2 songs, all the others are second-rate. When we buy a band's CDs, again, there are usually only 1 or 2 good songs. But a DJ can play 10, 15, 20 great songs in a row, chosen from the world's best bands. How many bands can do that?

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:27 pm
by mousethief
Yeah, they're mean. Like flamingos.

Kalman

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:40 pm
by julius
Do all salsa dancers think like that, or is that a website run by one of the renegade few?

I have seen some comical claims about music and dancing on lindy hop websites, that's for sure.

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:59 pm
by GemZombie
Good lord, I'd rather listen to a good band (latin or otherwise) over a DJ any day.

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:40 pm
by Eyeball
When we buy a band's CDs, again, there are usually only 1 or 2 good songs.
---------------

Wonder what the criteria are

Maybe there are just a lot of lousy Salsa bands.

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:04 pm
by CafeSavoy
julius wrote:Do all salsa dancers think like that, or is that a website run by one of the renegade few?

I have seen some comical claims about music and dancing on lindy hop websites, that's for sure.
I think the on2 dancers are more persnickety.

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:21 pm
by julius
I've heard the same claim made by west coast swing websites -- that a DJ provides more variety than a band.

Life is different on other planets.

*scratches head*

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:36 pm
by Serg
Dude, South Florida probably has more Salsa Clubs than anywhere. I've been to a couple of those clubs and a band playing or a DJ playing it all sounds the same to me. There seems to be no variation to the music. But this is just me and I really dislike Salsa.

Serg

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:50 pm
by CafeSavoy
julius wrote:I've heard the same claim made by west coast swing websites -- that a DJ provides more variety than a band.

Life is different on other planets.

*scratches head*
you don't have to go elsewhere to get that sentiment. I think someone posted a similar opinion on this board. What's more, it's a true statement, you can get more variety using recorded music. But where i think people differ is whether that variety trumps the vitality of live music. Recorded music can be great but lacks the multi-dimensionality of live music. A simple example of this is the difference between listening to a recording of a song and watching a video recording of the same performance. And even the video is still a recording.

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:24 pm
by lipi
I think someone posted a similar opinion on this board.
i believe that was me. and cafesavoy is right on. of course it's true that a dj can be more varied, and of course it's a matter of taste whether that makes up for the mystical vibe of liveness. i can't help it that you all are wrong. ;o)

there's something else...recordings that make it onto cd (both live and studio ones) tend to be the best of the bunch. there is some selection going on. then, we tend to buy cd's others have recommended or that we have read good reviews of. more selection. when you hear a band live both those levels of selection are gone. you may hear a good show, you may hear a terrible show. it's impossible to tell beforehand. (yes, yes -- i know these are gross generalisations. there's no need to point out that sometimes cd's contain sucky recordings. i know they do.)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:59 pm
by julius
In my opinion, the heart of lindy hop is improvisation and when you dance to the same canned music week after week, it really affects that aspect of one's dancing. How many times have you seen an entire roomful of dancers hit the exact same breaks in a popular DJed song? Personally I don't think micromusicality could have developed without the advent of DJs, so advocating DJed music over bands definitely has some sort of effect on the dance. (I leave it up to you to determine whether it is a positive or negative effect.)

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:01 pm
by Mr Awesomer
Show me a "Lindy Hopper" who prefers a DJ and I'll show you a bad dancer.

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:44 pm
by djstarr
julius wrote:In my opinion, the heart of lindy hop is improvisation and when you dance to the same canned music week after week, it really affects that aspect of one's dancing. How many times have you seen an entire roomful of dancers hit the exact same breaks in a popular DJed song? Personally I don't think micromusicality could have developed without the advent of DJs, so advocating DJed music over bands definitely has some sort of effect on the dance. (I leave it up to you to determine whether it is a positive or negative effect.)
This was really interesting to me at SoFlex; there were a number of songs that I didn't know, but the dancers hit the breaks and seemed to know the nuances of the songs, and these were complicated songs. I labeled them in my mind as "East Coast Hits" since the majority of the people there were from the East Coast.

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:25 pm
by lipi
GuruReuben wrote:Show me a "Lindy Hopper" who prefers a DJ and I'll show you a bad dancer.
you're cute when you lash out.
julius wrote:In my opinion, the heart of lindy hop is improvisation and when you dance to the same canned music week after week, it really affects that aspect of one's dancing. How many times have you seen an entire roomful of dancers hit the exact same breaks in a popular DJed song?
you're totally right and there are few good excuses for never varying your music as a dj. i believe we've had threads up the whazoo on this topic. the difference is that dj's can vary their music fairly easily, while bands only naturally have a much harder time doing so.
so advocating DJed music over bands definitely has some sort of effect on the dance. (I leave it up to you to determine whether it is a positive or negative effect.)
yes, i agree with you. otherwise this topic would never have come up.

incidentally, of course the universe would have to go and prove me wrong and have lavay play some great sets on friday in berkeley. very nice indeed. i love the blues belting trombone player. anyone know his name? has he recorded with any other bands?

Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:28 pm
by jmatthew
I don't know, it's really not that hard to hear breaks coming is it? Or just count the damn things out? I'm not entirely sure you need to memorize songs to hit all the breaks. Not that people don't get a little too into the micromusicallity sometimes (I know I've been guilty), but you don't have to have the song memorized to do it.
I've heard the same claim made by west coast swing websites -- that a DJ provides more variety than a band.
You have to remember that in the west coast world presently a live band is pretty much impossible. Sure, they COULD dance to blues all night, and there's definately a stalwart few who still have the guts and good taste to do it, but for the most part the west coast world is a world of pop and top 40 music, and that makes it pretty hard to nail down a band that plays "west coast" music. Plenty of swing bands still floating around, don't think I've ever heard of a "west coast swing band."

On the other hand, there's definately salsa bands, definately tango bands, swing bands, and I've even heard of a few ballroom bands... it's just the 'club' dances (West coast, hustle, nightclub 2step) that are basically built around dj'd music to the point of making a band pretty impractical.