Newbies in your scene

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Moonmist
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Newbies in your scene

#1 Post by Moonmist » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:42 pm

Hi,

I guess this is close to what Trev was talking earlier about the 135 Zone, but in 2 main parts. I was wondering about what bpm range and if you'd noticed the newbies like a certain type of songs (i.e. instrumental vs. vocals).

Several of us 'veterans' were saying that when we first learned to dance we start at 150 and move up to 170, then it's the huffin-puffin time. But now, I find that I have to get between 126-148, and 150 for the newbie is fast. One one hand I'm trying to push it faster, on the other is that it also limits alot of great songs. So, I'm curious as to what bpm range the newbies at your scene are dancing at.

The 2nd part of this is if you'd noticed that newbies liked to dance to vocals more than instrumentals? Which again kills alot of good opportunity. I am trying to put in couple of instrumentals here and there, but seems like in our scene if we put on an instrumental they think it's time to take a break or something.

Appreciate any input. Thanks!

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Matthew
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#2 Post by Matthew » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:55 pm

I'm guessing that you mean Lindy newbies, and not ECS/other newbies.

Whichever newbies you mean, I think the style of the song matters as much or more than the BPM. Usually, I can get away with playing faster jump blues or '50s rock than I can '30s jazz. Of course, many, many people in my scene like that music, sometimes even for dancing Lindy.

As far as vocals go, I find I tend to use them to encourage people to dance with the faster/older stuff. For my scene, I tend to look for things like "Goody, Goody" (195) and "The Glory of Love" (160) both by Benny Goodman. I don't necessarily mean that those are great songs (or that they're not great songs), but they are a way for people to ease into some older stuff.

Also, I've seen a mini-set of Rat Pack songs get all the Lindy Hoppers dancing. I wasn't playing it, but I think one of my friends requested that type of music, and it seemed to be what many people wanted.

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Bob the Builder
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#3 Post by Bob the Builder » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:20 pm

I have a general idea that the majority of ordinary people relate to vocals better than to instrumentals. There are two main reasons for this:
Over 95% of pop music for the past 40 years are vocals,
The human voice is the most natural way in which we can create music,

Unfortunately the art of “Scatting” is unheard of to most people today. Scatting is a great way to relate to instruments as it is a way a producing sounds without words.
So yes, most new people to the dance (and music), more than likely will find it easier to relate to vocals over instrumentals.

With regard to BMP range, yes you will find there is a good chance your average will be below or close to the 150 mark. But there is no reason why you can’t spin them stuff close to the 200 mark. Much of the time it will depend how they are thought.
If you do want to get beginners dancing to faster songs, one trick it to play a high energy song like “Tain’t what you do” by Jimmie Lunceford, which off memory is about 170+/-BPM. Then a few songs later on play a more up-tempo song around the 190 BPM that is not very high in energy, eg “Gang Busters” – Cats and the Fiddle.
I find beginners find the real slow songs more difficult than the more up tempo songs.

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#4 Post by Mr Awesomer » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:34 pm

American's continue to get fatter and lazier... especially in Texas.
What, what are we talking about again? haha
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Moonmist
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#5 Post by Moonmist » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:46 pm

Niiice Rueben.

Yes Matt, I'm talking about the Lindy newbie, sorry I should've clarified that.

If you do want to get beginners dancing to faster songs, one trick it to play a high energy song like “Tain’t what you do” by Jimmie Lunceford, which off memory is about 170+/-BPM. Then a few songs later on play a more up-tempo song around the 190 BPM that is not very high in energy, eg “Gang Busters” – Cats and the Fiddle.
I find beginners find the real slow songs more difficult than the more up tempo songs.
See, I tried that, and people thought it's a chance to Bal, or it's Jam time. It is like an automatic floor-clearer.

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#6 Post by Bob the Builder » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:58 pm

Yes, that can also happen. :D
The Joy of risk taking in DJing.
Make sure you still are always reading your dance floor. Knowing there energy level and abaility on the night will help you decide if you can up the tempo or not.

B

PS
Bal is still dancing. If you have people dancing Bal on the floor, don't see it as you have failed.
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#7 Post by Moonmist » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:00 pm

See, I like to think that I'm pretty diligent on reading the floor, that's why I felt stuck for not being able to push the crowd. :roll:

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#8 Post by Bob the Builder » Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:02 pm

PPS, don't see a jam as you have fail either.
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#9 Post by Bob the Builder » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:50 pm

Yes, some times dancing crowds can be difficult and as a DJ you really need to work hard. Other times they will dance to anything you put on. These kinds of things don’t change if they are new or mature dancers.
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#10 Post by LazyP » Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:19 am

How fast you get beginners to dance is very much dependent on the attitude of the crowd. One year ago, when I took over the DJing in my scene (before I didn't DJ every week as I do know) I could almost clear the floor at 190bpm. Now I have beginners dancing at 190bpm+.

If you get the good dancers dancing fast (just a question of pushing them...) you eventually get the intermediate dancers trying as well. When the beginners see intermediate dancers dancing fast they start trying as well.

I would say that my intermediate tempo is not very much higher than the DJ who used to DJ before me, but my tempo range is way much larger.
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#11 Post by mousethief » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:21 pm

GuruReuben wrote:American's continue to get fatter and lazier... especially in Texas.
What, what are we talking about again? haha
No, he's right. Just walk around - we got 3 cities in the Fat Top 10.

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#12 Post by mousethief » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:22 pm

People clear the floor on "Gang Busters?"

Eeep.

Kalman
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#13 Post by Moonmist » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:11 pm

mousethief wrote:People clear the floor on "Gang Busters?"

Eeep.

Kalman
Oh trust me, it only take something that's faster than 180, that'll do it.

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#14 Post by Platypus » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:08 am

What Moonmist isn't saying is that she has been a MAJOR force in shaping the DJ side of things in Houston for years. She knows her stuff and, yet, is STILL feeling frustrated.

We lost a huge number of our most experienced dancers about a year and a half ago (at least 15 moved away). So, it isn't JUST about the beginners, it is about a turnover in the crowd, with new trendsetters emerging. It has been weird recently to go out and have more people ask me "who are you?" just when I would have thought my name was a household word in the scene (in my own mind only, I guess). It tells me that we are beginner/intermediate heavy, enough so that the swing lore haven't all been automatically passed down to the new generation.

We are still an "everything goes" crowd, but I noticed a sharp increase in requests for "songs like you would hear at a wedding." In addition, we had a shift in beginner instructors and I have noticed that they have slowed down the music for the beginning classes. AND our newbies are much more vocal about making requests than in the past, not quite understanding that we are volunteers sharing our private music collections, not human jukeboxes who would buy "Rockin Robin" and the entire Michael Jackson collection just because someone asked to hear it.

FYI, this ISN'T going to negatively affect the offerings of Lindyfest. We are still bringing in an amazingly high number of great instructors and I will be ensuring the music meets y'all's high expectations.....

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#15 Post by Moonmist » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:54 pm

Oh by no means does it reflect anything in regards to Lindyfest, nor I am in anyway 'shape' the scene. But yes, definitely frustrated that there are good songs to be danced to and people are afraid to cross the bpm threshold.

Seriously thou, it's more of a question(s) of 1, if other cities' newbies start at just as low on the BPMs and 2, if they recognize any patterns w/ newbies who like vocals over instrumentals.

And please no more mention of the Michael Jackson music. Good grief, Charlie Brown. :roll:

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