Playing 12 bar songs jam circles

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Roy · #1 Post by **Roy** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:21 pm

I've come to the conclusion that playing 12 bar or 6-8 count format songs is bad for jam sessions. A good jam session song should have 4 8s. If the paragraph is when someone should be handed off which most advanced dancers think it should be an it makes sense to transition at that point. It appears many dancers can't tell from listening to the music when the paragraph is coming to an end so they often will count out 4- 8's from the last paragraph start point and cut in. I've seen this happen many times, people cutting in at the end of the 4th 8 count when it's a 6- 8 count formated song. Then they in turn only somtimes dance 2-8's because someone cuts in when they are suposed too and then people just start cutting in whenever or sometimes they count out 4 8s from when the last dancer started and cut in after the 2nd 8th count. This causes mass chaos. As a dancer I hate mass chaos jam sessions with people cutting in whenever.

kitkat · #2 Post by **kitkat** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:01 pm

This is a really funny mental image.

You're probably right. Sometimes, you've just gotta be a shepherd and cater to the middle common denominator.

Mr Awesomer · #3 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:45 am

Paragraph??

Do you mean phrase?

And good dancers cut in when the current couple starts sucking.

lipi · #4 Post by **lipi** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:55 am

And good dancers cut in when the current couple starts sucking.

i think roy meant birthday jams, not, er, shine jams.

that said, i don't think the song structure makes much of a difference. around here, people cut in whenever they feel like it, which is often before four 8-counts have expired. if you wait too long, six people have cut in front of you. and as the song is nearing the end, chaos reigns supreme.

Roy · #5 Post by **Roy** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:08 am

Yes I meant birthday jams and jams when there are mulitple dancers dancing at once. In San Farncisco they are held with all birthday people and out of towners dancing in one jam. So you may have 10 or more coules at once. In smaller scenes you often see them with just one couple. I avoid them now in SF because of this chaos thing of people cutting in whenever. Sometimes there is announcement to make sure that everyone gets to dance 4- 8 counts. In some scenes the rule is to cut in only while the phrase is ending. Which is my point songs with 4-8 count phrases lends itself better to people cutting in with phrase endings. 6-8 count phrases seem to automaticly cause chaos.

kitkat · #6 Post by **kitkat** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:13 am

You can't predict it in this scene because no one knows how to friggin' steal. Everyone who does want to try and do a real steal sneaks up on the birthday boy/girl before or after a phrase changeover so the lead won't let the follow go before the incoming dancer gets a chance to try something cool.

I'd say the people who're bold enough to go into a b-day jam here tend to go in at the phrase change, because they're intermediates. People who want to try to steal also know when a phrase change is and deliberately avoid it, which means you pretty much get people changing every 1 or every 1.3-1.7 phrases in this town.

Nate Dogg · #7 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 8:10 pm

I rarely partipate in birthday jams, mainly because other leads make it a miserable experience (talking about my scene, not other cities, I can't judge them).

It would be nice if everybody adhered to a 4 eight count rule or something standardized. Do other scenes actually adhere to "rules" like that?

In Austin, there are usually multiple couples having a birthday, so it is a little chaotic in that manner. The biggest problems are that you often don't get even two eight counts; the guy ahead of you sometimes won't gracefully give up the partner (it ends up being some stupid stealing game); towards the end of a song, people suddenly stop cutting in, since they want to be the last dancer and get the big dip; generally just an overally competitive attitude, the focus on the birthday person is lost, so I only participate when it is somebody close to me, and I miss a lot of those.

I guess I could promote better birthday dance ettiquette within the scene, probably would be somewhat effective if enough dancers joined me. I know that we all complain to ourselves about it, but we never do anything. However, it is just not worth my time.

Heck, in second though, I think I will post this to the local board and see if I stir anything up.

Nathan

julius · #8 Post by **julius** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 12:48 pm

If dancers don't know what a chorus in a song is, then screw them. That's just ignorant.

Roy · #9 Post by **Roy** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 6:59 pm

Nate Dogg wrote:I).

It would be nice if everybody adhered to a 4 eight count rule or something standardized. Do other scenes actually adhere to "rules" like that?

In Chicago they did for the most part, the only who didn't we're beginners.

mousethief · #10 Post by **mousethief** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:51 am

For a birthday jam, I play whatever they ask me to play (or the next thing to it). I don't think people are looking for musicality there.

Jam circles are something else entirely.

Kalman

Naomi · #11 Post by **Naomi** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:58 am

Roy - I'm curious. What song(s) did you try to play, that bombed?