DJing Pet Peeves

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Campus Five · #31 Post by **Campus Five** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:46 am

Krupa wasn't unique in that regard - any of the good swing players kept time through their solos. The real difference is how modern (be-bop and beyond) players don't keep time through solos.

julius · #32 Post by **julius** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:15 pm

You can hear the rhythm in any good swing drummer's solos. You can hear the MELODY in a GREAT swing drummer's solo. Try humming the melody of a song along with the drummer the next time one solos ... you might be surprised.

More modern drumming chops up the beat a hell of a lot. It's flashier and technically more difficult and not very fun to dance to.

Surfing this website might be somewhat rewarding:

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummersolo.html

Campus Five · #33 Post by **Campus Five** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:26 pm

It should be noted that the ability to keep the beat going through a solo, also applies to the rest of the song. Swing drummers had a much more consistent, thumping beat at all times - which later drummers thought of as heavy, boring and corny. Swing drummers kept the 4 beat going through all the syncopations and hits of a band - rather than following the band and trying to match every hit.

If you listen to a 50's big band drummer, you can hear how they are much more willing to break up the beat to follow the hits. That's just one of the many reasons I don't think later drumming is as good to dance to.

Toon Town Dave · #34 Post by **Toon Town Dave** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:56 pm

I'd tend to agree that's generally the case although there are a rare few good swing drummers today and they're a pleasure to dance to.

To relate to what Brent was saying, we have a local big band that has a drummer that really nails Krupa's style. On occasion, the rest of the band will go grab a cold one from the bar during Colin's drum solo on Sing Sing Sing. It's entirely danceable although an oxygen bottle is usually a necessity afterward. If the band would get a real bass, and play less of the overplayed standards in their sets they'd seriously kick butt.

Cyrano de Maniac · #35 Post by **Cyrano de Maniac** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:31 am

Well, to basically close this diversion, a point I forgot to mention is that until that local experience dancing to Mr. Bertolucci, I had never realized it was possible for a drum solo to be danceable.

Moving along... one DJing pet peeve of mine is DJs that don't have an ear for sound quality. Not so much in the area of the original recording, but in "The room doesn't sound right tonight, what's wrong in the playback or sound system?"

Toon Town Dave · #36 Post by **Toon Town Dave** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:32 pm

Pet peeve as a DJ, when the venue either doesn't have a monitor for the DJ or the equipment is positioned behind the speakers so I can't hear how good/bad or loud/quiet the sound to the audience is. While a sound check at the beginning of the night is great, it's usually done when the hall is empty and is not representative of a room full of sound-wave absorbing dancers.

julius · #37 Post by **julius** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:13 pm

julius wrote:You can hear the rhythm in any good swing drummer's solos. You can hear the MELODY in a GREAT swing drummer's solo. Try humming the melody of a song along with the drummer the next time one solos ... you might be surprised.

More modern drumming chops up the beat a hell of a lot. It's flashier and technically more difficult and not very fun to dance to.

Surfing this website might be somewhat rewarding:

http://www.drummerworld.com/drummersolo.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZFCcygR ... 0armstrong

This guy's hero must be Gene Krupa. Pretty decent drum solo too.

Nate Dogg · #38 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:06 am

Toon Town Dave wrote:Pet peeve as a DJ, when the venue either doesn't have a monitor for the DJ or the equipment is positioned behind the speakers so I can't hear how good/bad or loud/quiet the sound to the audience is. While a sound check at the beginning of the night is great, it's usually done when the hall is empty and is not representative of a room full of sound-wave absorbing dancers.

Are you talking about monitor speakers or a device?

On that front, we just bought a hand held decibel reader for our dances. Sound volume is such a subjective thing anyway. Some DJs always played things too loud and others too soft (that was the general complaint anyway). Now, we just need to look at the device and stay within a specified range. As the dance gets more crowded, the range gets bumped up a little.

Toon Town Dave · #39 Post by **Toon Town Dave** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:31 pm

I was thinking a monitor to get the general idea of the volume, I hate having to go back and forth to check the volume on the floor.

Naomi · #40 Post by **Naomi** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:23 pm

Pet peeve: Dead air. One reason I became a dj is that I couldn't stand waiting while the dj picked the next song, cued it, and got it to play. It could take a few minutes, with people standing around waiting.

On the flip side, I think I come across as a cranky dj. When people come up to me and start conversations 15 seconds before a song ends, I will not give them my full attention. And they will invariably get annoyed, even if I say, "excuse me, I've got to cue the next song."

So there's a question: how do you handle conversations while djing?

Naomi · #41 Post by **Naomi** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:25 pm

PS: How much for the decibel meter, and what ranges do you use?

Nate Dogg · #42 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:29 am

I forwarded your reply to George, he should get on the Board soon to explain about the decimal reader, since he was the one who bought it.

gatorgal · #43 Post by **gatorgal** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:17 pm

Naomi wrote: On the flip side, I think I come across as a cranky dj. When people come up to me and start conversations 15 seconds before a song ends, I will not give them my full attention. And they will invariably get annoyed, even if I say, "excuse me, I've got to cue the next song."

So there's a question: how do you handle conversations while djing?

Cranky or not, I think that's a valid reason for excusing yourself from a conversation.

To answer your question, I generally have no problem with folks who want to say hi, make a request or chat about whatever for a few seconds during a song.

For the people who want to chat all day, I will politely as I can tell them that I am working and that I need to give my full attention to the floor. If they still don't get it, I'm not afraid to be rude or abrupt. I have told people basically I don't interrupt their dancing to have a conversation with them... please don't interrupt my DJing.

I have NEVER had a problem with folks who came up to talk during an end of a song. Most people will stop talking themselves and give you a chance to cue up the next song. When I've had to interrupt them for that, they've never given me attitude.

So it's totally them.

Tina

PitchTheWoo · #44 Post by **PitchTheWoo** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:13 pm

Naomi wrote:Pet peeve: Dead air. One reason I became a dj is that I couldn't stand waiting while the dj picked the next song, cued it, and got it to play. It could take a few minutes, with people standing around waiting.

On the flip side, I think I come across as a cranky dj. When people come up to me and start conversations 15 seconds before a song ends, I will not give them my full attention. And they will invariably get annoyed, even if I say, "excuse me, I've got to cue the next song."

So there's a question: how do you handle conversations while djing?

Where have you heard a lot of dead air around here? You know, other than last night at 200 Grand when Josh's guitar pickups failed

I've heard dead air locally, but not to the extend or for the reason you describe. Mostly I find it in little bits when the DJ is off dancing and is late getting back the to booth to hit Play for the next song they had queued up. But I hate that too... It's like, DUDE, it's nice you enjoy dancing but your job tonight is to facilitate MY dancing!

Ha, the stressed look on my face is usually enough to tell people that now is not a good time to chat when I'm DJing. See, your problem is that you appear way too smiley and calm! Anyway, yea, I usually break off conversations by saying "Oh, I don't have anything queued up after this song, please excuse me". Everyone has always been understanding of that though. Are you maybe talking about your experience at LitP (translation for non Bay Area folks: Lindy in the Park - a free outdoor dance where lots of newbies might be found) ? I can understand a newbie not understanding how a DJ works and maybe being a little put off, as if they thought that you having to attend to your laptop or cd players is the same thing as taking a cell phone call or starting a conversation with someone else. But just be patient with them... they'll catch on!

Cheers,
Jeff

Cyrano de Maniac · #45 Post by **Cyrano de Maniac** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:48 pm

Naomi wrote:PS: How much for the decibel meter, and what ranges do you use?

I use the Radio Shack digital sound meter, both at our regular dance venue, and at the church I run sound for. $50, and it does a very adequate job. Technical note: for music level purposes, make sure to set the meter on "A" weighting.

Ranges vary with a number of factors. My church runs our "loud" services with peaks at 93-98 dB -- and believe me that's quite loud. Our "quiet" service runs 3-5 dB less on the peaks. But we get very few complaints about the overall volume level. At the dance venue, I'm lucky if I can push the system to 90 dB with a live band (I've never measured DJed music), and I will usually get one or two comments about how things are too loud.

The difference is in the equalization and the system configuration. In my experience, most often when you get complaints about the volume being too high, it's actually that some frequency component of the sound is too high, not the overall level. Usually this can be fixed by finding the frequencies that are standing out above the others, and pulling them back with an equalizer (I prefer a parametric EQ, but will make due with a graphic EQ if it's all that's available). In fact, usually I find that once I reduce the offending frequencies, I can then push the overall level even higher, with zero complaints.

In my case, the church system (actually a school auditorium) has well-placed and high-quality speakers, and I have all the control I need on the mixing board and some off-board equalizers. The sound is clear and consistent throughout the auditorium. In the dance venue, the speakers are of a lower quality, and I'm not convinced they were positioned in the best locations in the room, which leads to the rear of the room being a bit too quiet, and the front of the room being too loud (I won't even disagree with the complainants on that point). Couple that with insufficient EQ controls, and basically I do the best I can with what I have.

So, that's a long way of saying "it depends". In the end it always comes down to using your ears, because the meter can and will lie to you. My rule of thumb is that if you have to near-shout to talk to eachother on the floor during a swing-out, it's too loud. If you can clearly hear eachother at full extension during the swing-out with your normal speaking voice, it's too quiet. Anything in-between is a matter of opinion, and the person who is in charge of the sound system (DJ or otherwise) gets to make the call.

Brent