djing the blues...our job

[Nate Dogg]

I dislike the notion of Slow Lindy room when it's supposed to be a Blues room. I can (and have) played non-thigh rubbing songs in a Blues set but they are rare.

I have been to events with Slow Lindy rooms advertised as such. Do we really need to be that divided?

Kalman

People mix up dance names, music style names, they are not always the same thing. At events, it is a subjective thing a lot of the time, assuming the organizers are not very clear with the DJs and the attendees what the room is about.

To some people, a blues room means that blues music will be played in that room (and then you have the variations of blues defintions). To other people, a blues room is a room that is friendly to blues dancing. I know that there are large segments of the population in both camps. So, I try to keep a diverse enough book, so that I can please whatever crowd wants to hang in the blues room.

And, yes as Michael pointed out, I agree that the DJ in main room as a lot of impact on how the alt room is populated.

[mark0tz]

With a Lindy/Blues division of rooms, I think you can play some blues in the main room, if the situation calls for it.

And I agree put good dj's in both. But if i'm not liking what I'm hearing in one room, and liking what I'm hearing in another... guess which room I'm going to hang out in all night.

[mousethief]

I'm not kidding - the sign said "Slow Lindy Room." It was a coupla years ago.

Kalman

[gatorgal]

I'm not kidding - the sign said "Slow Lindy Room." It was a coupla years ago.

Kalman

Two years ago? Honey, you really have to let it go.

There are so many current things to compain about.

Tina

[mousethief]

Gin makes a man mean!

Kalman

[Nando]

So anything that is slow is acceptable. Including the latest trend of some DJ's DJing soul/motown/funk along with slow jazz in blues rooms. When a DJ plays almost no actual blues in a blues room it makes me wonder if that DJ even knows what blues is.

Just to be a little nitpicky and to play devil's advocate.

Motown/Soul/Funk is R&B - B for Blues. Plus the blues most people want to hear IS typically a form of slow jazz.

I'm still a bit new to the ALL BLUES in the blues room mentality and being a music lover, I love hearing this stuff. However, I've always been a believer that too much of anything will eventually become a negative.

Case in point, there was one blues set that I heard comments about this weekend that had no energy. Personally, I think it was a good set (at least what I heard) but perhaps the lack of mixing it up a little made it a little stale.

If people want to dance to the same exact speed all night long, you'd just have to set a metronome.

NOTE: This doesn't mean to play fast music in a blues room, just that tempos and energies need to vary from time to time, even it's just a one song spike in the mix. And I agree that lindy to slow music is just super lame.

ANOTHER NOTE: Let's call a spade a spade. The blues room is a bit more about thigh-rubbing than about dancing at times. Mixing it up a little also shows people that there's more than one move to the dance.

[Roy]

From:

R&B
genre: Rock
Evolving out of jump blues in the late '40s, R&B laid the groundwork for rock & roll. R&B kept the tempo and the drive of jump blues, but its instrumentation was sparer and the emphasis was on the song, not improvisation. It was blues chord changes played with an insistent backbeat. During the '50s, R&B was dominated by vocalists like Ray Charles and Ruth Brown, as well as vocal groups like the Drifters and the Coasters. Eventually, R&B metamorphosed into soul, which was funkier and looser than the pile-driving rhythms of R&B.
******
Please notice 2 things it's classifed under rock and the last sentence says Soul morphed from but is not R&B.

[Roy]

Also from AMG:

Blues:
Blues is about tradition and personal expression. At its core, the blues has remained the same since its inception. Most blues feature simple, usually three-chord, progressions and have simple structures that are open to endless improvisations, both lyrical and musical. The blues grew out of African spirituals and worksongs. In the late 1800s, southern African-Americans passed the songs down orally, and they collided with American folk and country from the Appalachians. New hybrids appeared by each region, but all of the recorded blues from the early 1900s are distinguished by simple, rural acoustic guitars and pianos. After World War II, the blues began to fragment, with some musicians holding on to acoustic traditions and others taking it to jazzier territory. However, most bluesmen followed Muddy Waters' lead and played the blues on electric instruments. From that point on, the blues continued to develop in new directions — particularly on electric instruments — or it has been preserved as an acoustic tradition.


Complete List of Blues Styles
Acoustic Blues Acoustic Chicago Blues
Acoustic Louisiana Blues Acoustic Memphis Blues
Acoustic New Orleans Blues Acoustic Texas Blues
Blues Gospel Blues Revival
British Blues Chicago Blues
Classic Female Blues Contemporary Blues
Country Blues Delta Blues
Detroit Blues Dirty Blues
Early American Blues East Coast Blues
Electric Blues Electric Chicago Blues
Electric Country Blues Electric Delta Blues
Electric Harmonica Blues Electric Memphis Blues
Electric Texas Blues Folk-Blues
Harmonica Blues Juke Joint Blues
Jump Blues Louisiana Blues
Memphis Blues Minstrel
Modern Acoustic Blues Modern Delta Blues
Modern Electric Texas Blues Modern Electric Chicago Blues
Modern Electric Blues New Orleans Blues
New York Blues Piano Blues
Piedmont Blues Prewar Blues
Prewar Country Blues Prewar Gospel Blues
Slide Guitar Blues Songster
Soul-Blues St. Louis Blues
Swamp Blues Texas Blues
Urban Blues Vaudeville Blues
West Coast Blues Work Songs

>>>please notice R&B, funk, soul, or motown is no on here. When I say traditional blues I am talking counrty blues, which is blues done in rural areas as opposed to do anything with they style of music called country.


Some Key Artists
Charles Brown 40s-90s, Etta James 50s-00s
Bo Carter 20s-40s, Lucille Bogan 20s, 30s
Bukka White 30s, 40s, 60s, 70s , Taj Mahal 60s-00s
Mississippi Fred McDowell 50s-70s, Roy Rogers 70s-00s
Cannon's Jug Stompers 20s, 30s, Big Maceo Merriweather 30s-50s
Robert Johnson 30s, Skip James 30s, 60s
Professor Longhair 40s-70s, Lowell Fulson 40s-90s
Amos Milburn 40s-60s, Jesse Fuller 50s, 60s
Bukka White 30s, 40s, 60s, 70s, Johnny Adams 50s-90s
Little Walter 40s-60s, Leroy Carr 20s, 30s

[Nando]

Roy, I don't want to get into a pissing match with Allmusic.com because they are not the ultimate bible on the subject. Especially when I was just playing Devil's Advocate. All Music Guide is in fact a Guide writen by musicians and music critics. In fact my roommate writes reviews for AMG. While it's a good guideline you can't just quote it to confirm a textbook answer. Just watch "Good Will Hunting" to see that argument doesn't always work.

From:

R&B
genre: Rock
Evolving out of jump blues in the late '40s, R&B laid the groundwork for rock & roll. R&B kept the tempo and the drive of jump blues, but its instrumentation was sparer and the emphasis was on the song, not improvisation. It was blues chord changes played with an insistent backbeat. During the '50s, R&B was dominated by vocalists like Ray Charles and Ruth Brown, as well as vocal groups like the Drifters and the Coasters. Eventually, R&B metamorphosed into soul, which was funkier and looser than the pile-driving rhythms of R&B.
******
Please notice 2 things it's classifed under rock and the last sentence says Soul morphed from but is not R&B.

And please notice that the term "Blues" is littered throughout that paragraph. It's there for a reason. And also notice that Ray Charles and Ruth Brown (who are played prominently in blues sets) are called R&B artists. So perhaps we shouldn't play them anymore according to AMG?

R&B stands for Rythmn and Blues. To pigeonhole that only in the Rock genre would not be 100 percent correct IMO. I don't need to quote a textbook to form that opinion. It's roots are in Jump Blues which can be traced back into Blues. Plus there's lots of Rock and Roll musicians who are also known for Blues and they probably wouldn't get a lot of play in a Blues room unless they fit the definition of thigh rubbing music slow music.

I'm only saying that it's fair to mix it up. And while most R&B hits may not fit in a blues room atmosphere, some R&B can fit (most probably would more so than in a Lindy room.) Of course if we're talking about an alternate room, then fine... keep it thigh-rubbing strict blues. My only other concern that I'd have is keeping it high energy for 4 + hours.

I don't mind you using references, but please don't go soley quoting Allmusic. If you don't know how to get your own thoughts in a discussion then just posting the link to the Allmusic page you stole it from will suffice.

P.S. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but if you substitute the word "Blues" with "Lindy" or "Vintage" and you substitue "R&B/Soul/Funk" with "Groove" in this thread and I think you'd be arguing on the opposite side. So if you can be a little bit looser in terms for lindy music, why be so stringent on the terminology for blues?

*edited for clarity*

[Nando]

And one last thing. I heard a couple of great blues tunes this past weekend at the house I was staying at in Atlanta. One was a Prince song and another was from Living Colour. I can tell you from the people who were at the house (other DJ's) that both those songs would have fit perfectly in a blues room - even if the artists are considered Rock or Funk artists.

So don't limit yourself just becuase you can read AMG. Many prominent artists have many influences that could surprise you.

[Roy]

Since you consider R&B- blues music simply because blues is in the title do you consider neo-swing (or sometimes called retro-swing,) swing music? The critics and the musicans say its rock with borrowed influences.

[mousethief]

I personally hope that Blues rooms will police themselves into playing more traditional music. Some truly great artists defy all attempts to classify them - Ray Charles is a perfect example. How about Jumpin' Joe Williams?

In the end, it's going to be the responsiblity of the DJs and organizers to affect any real change. I've been listening to my Jay McShann CDs and there is phenomenal Blues material in there. I think there is too much crap played in side rooms, passed off because DJs believe that people will just eat it up if it is not "Lindy."

Although I am a semi-traditionalist, I would not play most early pieces, such as Bessie Smith. I like - and have been most successful with - 30's - 50's Blues, with a more rounded, more developed style. I use more carnal pieces and lean towards vocals more than I would in the main room. But I reserve the right to shake things up, to break up the leg humping with a relaxed swing tune. However, that's not to say that I have not stooped to playing Alicia Keys to jump-start a room.

Kalman

[Roy]

Blues by deffinition is very broad, I am just rebutting the claim by Nando that soul is R&B and R&B is blues. There is some good modern blues suitable for dancing, Ernie Andrews has some great tracks, Buddy guy's latest CD Blues Singer has some great tracks, and as you mentioned great blues by Jay McShann, also Ella Fitzgeral, Count Basie, Gene Harris, etc, etc. Many of these Lindy Hoppers already dance too.

[Nate Dogg]

Blues by deffinition is very broad, I am just rebutting the claim by Nando that soul is R&B and R&B is blues.

Where in there did he say that? It looked to me that he was pointing out some of the difficulties of defining genres.

I think Nando will find the version below closer to what he meant:

The claim by Nando that some soul songs/artists are also considered R&B and some R&B songs/artist also considered blues.

That is closer to how I interpreted it. Why would anybody want to rebut that? Some songs live the grey area between genres.

[Roy]

.

Motown/Soul/Funk is R&B - B for Blues. Plus the blues most people want to hear IS typically a form of slow jazz.

That's how I read it, I can agree with that R&B artists can and do both R&B and blues, not that R&B is blues. Or Soul is R&B, but some soul artists do record blues songs.