djing the blues...our job

[Nando]

First of all, I barely consider Neo-Swing real music, rock or jazz. However, even though most of it sucks and wouldn't be played by any of us, it does have a swing beat. At least enough of one for ECS dancers to enjoy if they don't care about the musical content.

Some critics say Jump Blues is more Rock and Roll than Jazz. You can argue that Louis Jordan was a precursor to R&R, not necessarily a part of R&R. Also, most of these critics don't dance.

Blues by deffinition is very broad, I am just rebutting the claim by Nando that soul is R&B and R&B is blues.

Where did I say that R&B IS blues? I was making the association with the name sharing between R&B and Blues and the fact that R&B have influences in blues.

Just to be a little nitpicky and to play devil's advocate.
Motown/Soul/Funk is R&B - B for Blues. Plus the blues most people want to hear IS typically a form of slow jazz.

Incidentally I just was in a jazz workshop recently where we went over a bunch of blues heads formed from swing and bop music. Here's a nice list of melodies that fit in a blues format.

C Jam Blues
Billie's Bounce
Confirmation
Now's The Time
Blue Monk
Straight No Chaser
Au Prevave
Orinthology

I don't even know if I have a point on this other than the fact that you would probably quote AMG again to prove me that these don't fall under the genre of blues when there are lots of people who would still contest that they are blues because of their musical format. Most of those people are musicians don't hump to music in blues rooms.

(Yes, I'm emphasizing thigh-rubbing and humping to the music. Not that I'm completely against it, it just that I find it interesting that we would want to form a traditional style blues room when I think most people in that room really don't care as much as long as the music represents what they feel a blues room should be about. My issue is just that there is music that can apply without giving a blues room a "novelty" feel.)

*edited to fix my damn quote*

[wheresmygravy]

When I have the opportunity to spin for a "Blues" event I will usually mix it up with the likes of Jay McShann, Julia Lee, BB King, Gene Harris, and throw in some local Texas Blues from the likes of Al DuPree and Robin Bank$. I will also toss in a variety of vocals from the 50's 60's like Rosemary Clooney, Lou Rawls, and a few other 'lounge' singers.

I play very few Pop artists, and when I do those are more like the "novelty" songs.

My general rule is I try to play music that evokes blues 'dancin' not 'rubbin'.

[sonofvu]

When I have the opportunity to spin for a "Blues" event I will usually mix it up with the likes of Jay McShann, Julia Lee, BB King, Gene Harris, and throw in some local Texas Blues from the likes of Al DuPree and Robin Bank$. I will also toss in a variety of vocals from the 50's 60's like Rosemary Clooney, Lou Rawls, and a few other 'lounge' singers.

I play very few Pop artists, and when I do those are more like the "novelty" songs.

My general rule is I try to play music that evokes blues 'dancin' not 'rubbin'.

Excellent post Jerry. I'm not a blues dj. I'm a swing dj. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA In any event, I think that what Jerry plays is good for the dancers. I think they need to be educated on the variety and complexity of the blues. I don't care what anyone says, slow pop tunes can not be considered blues music. Besides there is so much music within blues that you do not have to go to Michael Jackson, or Prince or any pop artist for songs.

[mousethief]

A typical Kalman blues set would be...

Billie Poole
Billie Holiday
Jay McShann
Jimmy Witherspoon
Duke Ellington (East St. Louis Toodle Loo - breaks it up)
Oscar Peterson (esp. Georgia or Hymn to Freedom)
Gene Harris (maybe, I'm tired of GH for now)
Dinah Washington (love her)

And lots of good instrumentals. Occassionally, I'll throw in some Kevin Mahogany. Lately, I've been looking more and more at early jazz - Oliver & Morton - for gutbucket music.

Kalman

[sonofvu]

Blues by deffinition is very broad, I am just rebutting the claim by Nando that soul is R&B and R&B is blues.

Where did I say that R&B IS blues? I was making the association with the name sharing between R&B and Blues and the fact that R&B have influences in blues.

I think that by pointing out that the B in R & B stands for Blues made the connection that R & B is blues. Also the context that your argument was framed in made me think that you were saying that R&B is blues, not just derived from blues.

[Nando]

Blues by deffinition is very broad, I am just rebutting the claim by Nando that soul is R&B and R&B is blues.

Where did I say that R&B IS blues? I was making the association with the name sharing between R&B and Blues and the fact that R&B have influences in blues.

I think that by pointing out that the B in R & B stands for Blues made the connection that R & B is blues. Also the context that your argument was framed in made me think that you were saying that R&B is blues, not just derived from blues.

OK, I can see that. I just got ticked at all the AMG babble sent me as a rebuttal as if I didn't know what R&B was.

Incidentally Roy, didn't you play Black and Tan Fantasy on Friday night in the blues room this weekend. And I could have sworn you played a song Saturday night that wasn't traditional blues but had more of a lindy feel. I'm only pointing the Saturday one becuase I did happen to like it. I was pretty sure you were in front of the booth when I heard it.

[Roy]

That answer is yes and yes. I throw in a slow jazz song or 2 every hour in a blues room for variety.

[12bars]

Mainly it is your interpretation of 'blues':
is it that which is in 12 bars?
is it that which is exclusively slow?
is it that which is exclusively melancholic in subject matter?
I think 'blues' in terms of music can be any combination of the three. However, most of the blues dancing I've seen is attempted sensuality to music that only need be slow.

i wasnt looking to talk about this much here. i noticed that there was thread that discussed defining blues type stuff. but, my answer is yes...and some.

A lot of folks want slower music with a sensual vibe to it. They could care less whether or not it is blues.
you can blues dance to non-blues music
I think the reason you see some soul, other styles of slow music seeping into the alt rooms is that people are responding to it and having fun.
People mix up dance names, music style names, they are not always the same thing. At events, it is a subjective thing a lot of the time, assuming the organizers are not very clear with the DJs and the attendees what the room is about.
To some people, a blues room means that blues music will be played in that room (and then you have the variations of blues defintions). To other people, a blues room is a room that is friendly to blues dancing. I know that there are large segments of the population in both camps.

yes. this is all true of our current scene. in addition, the comon misconseption about blues dancing is that its about thigh-humping, and rubbing, and not really about dancing and the music. i think that the majority of blues dancing done to non blues music helps to feed that. i think this is unfortunate. as a blues dancer i want to dance to mostly blues. thats not to say that i dont enjoy dancing to non blues music that has "bluesy feel". same for me in lindy. im not one of those people who will say if its not swing music its not lindy, but i want to dance to mostly swing.

Blues rooms and lindy rooms are now pretty much separate cultures. Sad, but true. They are not part of one homogenous event, like you would find at (pre-lindy) the Lincoln Gardens or the Savoy Ballroom. They are separate rooms with different dance styles, different music and a different culture.

im not sure im with you on this. its very posible that we are headed in that direction though. i have not yet herd someone say, "i dont know lindy, im a blues dancer". for me that would mean the cultures are pretty much seprate. that said, things are not like they were at lincon gardens or the savoy. as to why...another thread perhaps, or board maybe.

I personally hope that Blues rooms will police themselves into playing more traditional music.
In the end, it's going to be the responsiblity of the DJs and organizers to affect any real change.
Although I am a semi-traditionalist, I would not play most early pieces, such as Bessie Smith. I like - and have been most successful with - 30's - 50's Blues, with a more rounded, more developed style. I use more carnal pieces and lean towards vocals more than I would in the main room. But I reserve the right to shake things up, to break up the leg humping with a relaxed swing tune. However, that's not to say that I have not stooped to playing Alicia Keys to jump-start a room.

i actually i was able to play a few traditional blues songs that people danced to at atlx (and some that cleared the floor ie. lead belly's cc rider).
bessie smith..nobody knows you when your down...
Memphis Minnie McCoy..moanin the blues
those two did real well.
i dont think anyone could handle an entire set of early blues, not that that is what you are suggesting. i think everyone agrees that a good set has variety; energy, style, tempo ect. all of this can be found in blues music.

[12bars]

as a blues dancer i want to dance to blues music. im not alone, but we are in the minority. i think that is unfortunate. i also see blues dancing as a dance that is being developed as we speak. i personaly think it should develop around blues music. i want it to be about the music that i love. i realilze that as a blues dj i have an agenda aside from just making the dancers happy. how acceptable is that? is it my job as a blues dj to help shape the dance?

[mousethief]

All DJs have some sort of agenda. I think trying to provide entertainment and some raw material for dancing is all I am supposed to do. I provide entertainment but that does not make me an entertainer, nor does introducing something new make me an innovator or an educator.

I'm just the guy who hits play.

That said, you have to give people something to work with if they are going to dance a specific pattern. For Lindy Hop, that's good music with clear, swinging rhythm. For Blues, its... blues. If you just throw a bunch of junk on the floor, no one can hope to build anything good from it.

Kalman

[Lawrence]

This entire thread demonstrates why I got in a pissing match with someone who wrote "BLUES ROOM" on the sign for the Slow Blues room at the Austin Exchange last year instead of the very purposeful name we had given it: "SLOW BLUES ROOM." I asked them to re-write the sign, and they threw a fit because they didn't think there was a difference.

I recall the term deriving from the Rhythm Hot Shot's/Herrang's use of the term, "Blues dancing" and "Blues night," which has always rubbed me the wrong way, so to speak.
Friggin Swedglish!

[mousethief]

I'm sure that's the only reason too...

Kalman

[Yakov]

How about this: Playing music that's slow & sensuous AND happens to be blues. By which I mean mostly twelve bar, not necessarily melancholy*, rhythmic blues music.

T-Bone Walker, S&J Blues from "Satch & Josh," Nat Cole "Blues In My Shower," Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, a little Basie, Jay McShann, Ella (D. E. Songbook), Erskine Hawkins "After Hours," Memphis Slim, etc. all fit here.

I like to mix it up with a little bit of slow soul, just for some rhythmic variation. Maybe like 20-30% from this category, including:

Aretha, Ray Charles, Gene Harris, Red Hot Chili Peppers "If You Want Me To Stay," etc.

Plus a little bit of slow swing like "Mood Indigo," etc.

Mixing up these categories plus mixing tempos from 60-90 makes for a happy and authentically bluesalicious slow-blues room.

The reason some people hang out in one place and some people hang out in the other place is because they want to do that.

And please: STOP USING AMG as some sort of holy text! AMG is about as useful as IMDB, which is to say, very useful as a reference -- but never should be considered the last word on anything.

-yakov.
* I don't think any of this stuff is melancholy, even if the lyrics might be melancholy. The music always lifts it a little bit. Unless you're talking about some seriously gut-bucket and/or acoustic blues, which I don't think anyone would ever play at a dance

[mousethief]

I still hold that the sheer necessity of having an extra room separates and sometimes polarizes dancers by genre. It's usually a good distance away, often around a corner and enclosed by its own four walls. And people are certainly free to stay in whatever room they like, I just think it creates two distinct groups when enough dancers do not travel back and forth.

I've DJed enough separate rooms to say that I've seen an increasing trend of dancers staying in the side room all night, even when live bands are available in the main room. Some stay even when the rooms are roughly similar in music as the DJs adjust to keep their dancers happy. That trend, if it continues, disturbs me greatly.

Kalman

[Roy]

And please: STOP USING AMG as some sort of holy text! AMG is about as useful as IMDB, which is to say, very useful as a reference -- but never should be considered the last word on anything.

Some people complain when you use it others complain when you don't quote where you got your information.