It's all the fault of this forum.
At some point last year, I was reading the 'Your Personal, in home stereo system', and Eyeball linked to this article about the Benchmark DAC1
I read that, and thought two things: first - "I really want to hear what that sounds like", and "I'm not prepared to pay that kind of money to find out."
As with many of us here though, I've been very concerned with getting the most out of my collection in terms of sound quality, and when I stumbled across references to the Devilsound a few days ago, I started looking into it more.
Then I looked at reviews like this one, which compares it directly to the DAC1 (which is clearly still better, but at $1k more, one would expect it to be)
Then I bought one.
First impressions - it's tiny. Just a cable with a small box in the middle... but feels very much like a quality product.
I'm still breaking it in at the moment, so it should still improve some as I use it more... but the bottom line is that the sound quality is incredible. I'm no audiophile, so I won't even try to describe what I'm hearing in any technical terms, but I don't think I've ever heard my DJing collection sound so good. I'm hearing details in the music that I never noticed without it, and compared to the internal sound card, or either of my externals, the music sounds so vibrant and alive, for want of a better description.
It's only been a few days, but thus far, I am extremely impressed, and in music heaven.
Devilsound DAC
Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy
Yep - got mine from Item Audio. Are you going to the Snowball this year? I can demo it to you if so...chrisbe wrote:That sounds really interesting! You bought it in the UK I suppose? Online?
They are not what you'd call cheap (unless compared to their more expensive cousins) - but I found all the reviews impossible to resist. I've only had it a few days - took it out for a proper spin on Saturday, but I'll add any further observations to this thread as and when.
I tried it out on a fellow DJ on Saturday, demoing the difference over headphones between the Mac Pro headphone output and the Devilsound (using a couple of tracks from the Lionel Hampton Mosaic set), and his jaw literally dropped - he loved it, and said he could hear instruments via the DAC that he simply couldn't hear at all from the built-in. Myself, I wouldn't go quite that far, but I'm hearing a lot of things far more clearly with the DAC - I plan to sit down and spend a lot more time playing with it very soon, and will report back.
If you want the technical details, see here.Haydn wrote:It certainly sounds great - but what exactly is it (cable, sound card, processor?) ...
For all intents and purposes though, I'm using it as a USB external sound card.
Thanks Andy - that looks really goodstraycat wrote:If you want the technical details, see here.Haydn wrote:It certainly sounds great - but what exactly is it (cable, sound card, processor?) ...
For all intents and purposes though, I'm using it as a USB external sound card.
For a similar yet cheaper option, this has garnered good reviews: http://www.headstage.com/USB-DAC-Cable: ... be686941e4
I haven't tried that one specifically, although I've sampled a rather large variety of dacs, both portable and not. To my ears, amps make a bigger difference than the dacs. Trying out a $50 dac sounded pretty similar to those in the $200 range. It wasn't until I moved into the $1k range that I started to notice any
For DJing, I wouldn't really consider anything more than a $100 sound card unless you want a specific type of interface (balanced for example, or multiple outputs, mixing, etc) since that extra fidelity doesn't typically come through on big PA speakers. For home use though, I have a couple different toys for hooking up through speakers or headphones. Heck, I built myself a tube amp for my headphones a couple months ago.
I haven't tried that one specifically, although I've sampled a rather large variety of dacs, both portable and not. To my ears, amps make a bigger difference than the dacs. Trying out a $50 dac sounded pretty similar to those in the $200 range. It wasn't until I moved into the $1k range that I started to notice any
For DJing, I wouldn't really consider anything more than a $100 sound card unless you want a specific type of interface (balanced for example, or multiple outputs, mixing, etc) since that extra fidelity doesn't typically come through on big PA speakers. For home use though, I have a couple different toys for hooking up through speakers or headphones. Heck, I built myself a tube amp for my headphones a couple months ago.
Could you link me to some of those reviews? The ones I've found tend to say something along the lines of: 'good for $69'Surreal wrote:For a similar yet cheaper option, this has garnered good reviews: http://www.headstage.com/USB-DAC-Cable: ... be686941e4
One of the things that made me sit up when reading the Devilsound reviews was that they tended to compare it to DACs in the $1K+ range.Surreal wrote:Trying out a $50 dac sounded pretty similar to those in the $200 range. It wasn't until I moved into the $1k range that I started to notice any
Here's a quote from one such review:
Have I heard better bass? Sure – for one, my reference DAC, the LessLoss DAC 2004 MK II fed by a forthcoming review of the Lindemann USB/SPDIF converter sounded rather more weighty – particularly in the electronica section of my music collection. Then again, the LessLoss DAC is around USD 4k – or in other words, ten times the asking price of the Devilsound.
While I don't have a great deal in the way of technical knowledge here, I would be extremely surprised if that were the case. I know it's not the same thing, but the difference at home, playing over a mediocre-quality eight year old, £80 set of computer speakers was tremendous. Using it at a dance on Saturday, it sounded good, but it wasn't my own setup, and I wasn't able to do any kind of direct comparison.Surreal wrote:For DJing, I wouldn't really consider anything more than a $100 sound card unless you want a specific type of interface (balanced for example, or multiple outputs, mixing, etc) since that extra fidelity doesn't typically come through on big PA speakers.
I was hoping to give it a proper spin last night on one of our regular nights - I was planning to set it up to flip between internal output, my normal soundcard, and the new DAC. Unfortunately, we had to cancel because of the snow. With a bit of luck, I'll get time to try it tonight at home. Watch this space.
The reviews I've seen have mostly been through forum browsing over at head-fi.org, although a brief search at the moment doesn't turn up much. They weren't overwhelming or anything... so yeah, I guess pretty much along the lines of "good for the price".
My points of reference for dacs/soundcards in the "pro" category have been several by M-audio, Focusrite, Behringer, Echo, Turtle Beach, Creative, etc. Amoung the "hifi" stuff, iBasso, Nuforce, HotAudio, Audio-gd, Benchmark, Cambridge Audio, blah blah blah.
In my experience...
Playing through PA speakers: Moving from a laptop to a $30 turtle beach micro is a noticeable step up. Going from that to a $200 M-Audio or Focusrite, slightly better. Moving onto the hifi stuff that costs twice as much... more like a step sideways than anything.
Playing through home speakers or headphones: from laptop to micro is a big jump. Up the the $200 range is a bit better. Up another step is slightly better, but I really had to pay attention to it. Moving up to the $1000 dacs... I was probably suffering from placebo at that point when using my own gear. Listening throug better amps and headphones than mine, I was maybe able to tell the difference, but I still think it was placebo.
Anecdote:
When I brought new speakers to a venue, almost everyone noticed the improvement and commented on it (though they didn't actually see the speakers, they felt music was noticeably cleaner... though admitedly the old PA system was atrocious). When I switched from my laptop output to a $60 soundcard, a few people noticed, commenting that the music seemed more distinct and clear somehow, but they couldn't quite place it. When I switched from that to a couple different $200-400 offerings, no one noticed with the exception of two guys who've worked in audio who noticed the ground loop was gone because I was using balanced output and/or DI boxes.
That all said, I'm just a wannabe audiophile. I perhaps enjoy chasing the tech as much as the listening itself (though now I have too many toys and need to sell off some headphones). It's a bit silly as I'm really good at picking out ground hum and other forms of inteference or degredation, but not that good at the hifi details. *shrug*
My points of reference for dacs/soundcards in the "pro" category have been several by M-audio, Focusrite, Behringer, Echo, Turtle Beach, Creative, etc. Amoung the "hifi" stuff, iBasso, Nuforce, HotAudio, Audio-gd, Benchmark, Cambridge Audio, blah blah blah.
In my experience...
Playing through PA speakers: Moving from a laptop to a $30 turtle beach micro is a noticeable step up. Going from that to a $200 M-Audio or Focusrite, slightly better. Moving onto the hifi stuff that costs twice as much... more like a step sideways than anything.
Playing through home speakers or headphones: from laptop to micro is a big jump. Up the the $200 range is a bit better. Up another step is slightly better, but I really had to pay attention to it. Moving up to the $1000 dacs... I was probably suffering from placebo at that point when using my own gear. Listening throug better amps and headphones than mine, I was maybe able to tell the difference, but I still think it was placebo.
Anecdote:
When I brought new speakers to a venue, almost everyone noticed the improvement and commented on it (though they didn't actually see the speakers, they felt music was noticeably cleaner... though admitedly the old PA system was atrocious). When I switched from my laptop output to a $60 soundcard, a few people noticed, commenting that the music seemed more distinct and clear somehow, but they couldn't quite place it. When I switched from that to a couple different $200-400 offerings, no one noticed with the exception of two guys who've worked in audio who noticed the ground loop was gone because I was using balanced output and/or DI boxes.
That all said, I'm just a wannabe audiophile. I perhaps enjoy chasing the tech as much as the listening itself (though now I have too many toys and need to sell off some headphones). It's a bit silly as I'm really good at picking out ground hum and other forms of inteference or degredation, but not that good at the hifi details. *shrug*
Do you use a mac or something else? I've noticed the ground loop thing happens more with non-macs. But is that just my imagination?
I have an imic but I think my new laptop probably has a better internal soundcard, so I'm ready to get something new.
....really, the only thing better than new DJing hardware is new music, right?
I have an imic but I think my new laptop probably has a better internal soundcard, so I'm ready to get something new.
....really, the only thing better than new DJing hardware is new music, right?
You mean in Canada. All the Mac laptops in the U.S. have them. I don't know about Mexico. (Didn't we have this bizarre conversation once before?) I assume there are bizarre laws that require them in the U.S., to boost the sale of those funny little two-prong-to-three adapters, because they're silly for laptops.Surreal wrote:I find macs typically do not suffer from ground loop since their plugs lack the ground prong (at least in North America).
Mac PSUs are also earthed in the UK, but in my experience have minimal ground loop problems. I like to think that it's down to good design...lipi wrote:You mean in Canada. All the Mac laptops in the U.S. have them. I don't know about Mexico. (Didn't we have this bizarre conversation once before?) I assume there are bizarre laws that require them in the U.S., to boost the sale of those funny little two-prong-to-three adapters, because they're silly for laptops.Surreal wrote:I find macs typically do not suffer from ground loop since their plugs lack the ground prong (at least in North America).
Hmm, that's odd that you have the ground prong in the US but we don't in Canada.lipi wrote:You mean in Canada. All the Mac laptops in the U.S. have them. I don't know about Mexico. (Didn't we have this bizarre conversation once before?) I assume there are bizarre laws that require them in the U.S., to boost the sale of those funny little two-prong-to-three adapters, because they're silly for laptops.Surreal wrote:I find macs typically do not suffer from ground loop since their plugs lack the ground prong (at least in North America).
... and yeah, I think we've had this conversation before. Probably in one of the ground loop threads.