amp clicking issue....

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Meredith
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amp clicking issue....

#1 Post by Meredith » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:20 am

I'm getting ready to start a new event and everything was going well until I plugged my new laptop into the studio amp-(HP Pavillion AMD Turion X2 Dual-Core Mobile Processor RM-72 ;2.1 GHz). The amp played the music at first briefly and then it started making this ticking noise, no longer playing any music. The amp is the studio's equipment, it's a 40 watt Pioneer stereo amp Model A-301. The ticking noise only stopped when I stopped playing the music on the laptop. Then, whenever trying to start the music again the ticking/clicking came back but no music. The laptop appeared to be playing the song fine, no humming at all, just clicking from the amp. From my research online the ticking is the power relay saying that the protection circuit has detected something wrong.

I've gotten a couple of opinions on what it may be, would a ground loop issue cause the clicking noise and reaction in the amp?

Any information or opinions on this topic would be greatly appreciated as I'm stressing out about this now.

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Cyrano de Maniac
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#2 Post by Cyrano de Maniac » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:42 pm

A ground loop wouldn't cause this -- the characteristic sign of a ground loop is that 60Hz hum you hear in the speakers (i.e. think of the sound you hear near big electrical panels, or coming from an electric guitar amp when they first plug in the guitar).

If you're sure the laptop is playing OK (e.g. plug in some headphones to the output and check that the clicking isn't from the laptop), then it certainly sounds like something is wrong with the amp.

You mention that it's a Pioneer, which to me implies that it's a consumer-level piece of equipment (maybe a bookshelf unit?) rather than something really meant to fill up a large space with sound. Often in studios I've seen setups where too many speakers are chained together off of a single amplifier -- which sounds entirely possible given that it's only a 40W amp in your case. For that size of amp I'm going to guess no more than 2 small to mid-size speakers should really be hooked up to it.

If the amplifier can't drive that many speakers it may put itself into a fault condition, and stop working. If this sounds like what's happenining I'd start by disconnecting some of the additional speakers. If the amp has gone into shutdown, you might need to unplug the amp from power for a few minutes to let the circuit reset itself, or press a reset button on it. Or not.

In borderline cases this behavior can be triggered or not based on the source material. I believe bass-heavy music requires a bit more power draw than high-frequency content, so if the system is on the edge of tripping its protection circuit, your choice of music or levels/EQ from the laptop might be just enough to make the difference.

Assuming all of the above is the true nature of the problem, the real solution is for the studio to invest in higher-end equipment.

Brent

Meredith
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#3 Post by Meredith » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:49 am

I'm sure that the clicking was from the amp and not the laptop. And you're right, it's a bookshelf unit w/ 2 mid-size speakers hooked up. The studio we're renting space in is a ballet studio and the system probably works fine for their purposes, so we may be SOL and need to buy something.

I've been rereading some of the boards about recommended sounds systems (portable systems Passport vs Peavey Escort 2000 which is now discontinued, vs separate items to lug around) etc and the issue is that we have no idea what kind of turnout we will get or grow into. They have another amp system (a 70s looking machine) that did play the music, but I need to go back and check on the quality etc. Neither system has an AUX input for the RCA cable, which is what is recommended. On the 70s machine I was plugged in through the tape inputs.

Do you have any recommendations as just a temporary solution until we know if the event will even be successful? I really want the quality of sound to be there, but not sure what to do at this point. I guess renting equipment is an option --this is a small town so I'm not sure how many options I will find here.

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Cyrano de Maniac
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#4 Post by Cyrano de Maniac » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:46 am

I'm not sure what the "70's system" is, but if it's a mixing board of any sort it should have 1/4" mono inputs. Just attach some RCA-to-1/4" adapters to the end of your RCA cable (available at Radio Shack) and plug into the appropriate spot on two channels for left and right. Or just keep using those AUX inputs.

I'm not a big fan of the Passport types of system, as I personally don't find the sound quality acceptable. However other people feel differently, so don't take my word as more than the 2 cents its worth.

I can certainly understand not wanting to lay out much money until you know what you can expect for numbers. One idea that comes to mind is to find a friend, a friend's parent, an acquaintance, or anyone who's had their own band at some point in the past, and ask to borrow their equipment. You might be surprised how many old wannabe rock stars still have an old amp and speaker cabinet in their garage or attic, and would be willing to either let you have it, or sell it for cheap.

Pawn shops or music stores that take in used equipment might also be reasonable places to look. You might have greater luck with those possibilities if you take a few hours to hit up some stores in a bigger place (e.g. Salt Lake City) when you take a road trip sometime.

And finally, I'll throw out a possibility that I wouldn't have even considered before a month ago. It turns out that some of the newer solid-state guitar amplifiers have AUX inputs for hooking up an iPod/etc. I think these are meant for people to be able to practice by playing guitar along with music coming through the amp. I bought a Roland Cube 20X for my own guitar learning reasons, and was quite surprised with how good my iPod sounded through it. You might want to check out a bigger amp like the Roland Cube 30X as a possibility. Don't just get "any old" guitar amp though -- they need to have an AUX input specifically for this sort of operation, otherwise you won't get good results.

You might also consider keyboard amps, such as the Roland KC-350, which would be suitable not just for music playback, but you could also hook up a microphone for MCing. Both guitar and keyboard amps are quite portable, and depending on the model not all that large (the Roland KC-550 is a bit large). Oh, and it's just coincidence that everything I've mentioned is from Roland -- Peavy and others have good suitable products as well.

Brent

Meredith
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#5 Post by Meredith » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:10 am

Sounds good, I appreciate your help with this and will look into these options. Thanks :)

Toon Town Dave
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#6 Post by Toon Town Dave » Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:24 am

Meredith wrote:I've been rereading some of the boards about recommended sounds systems (portable systems Passport vs Peavey Escort 2000 which is now discontinued, vs separate items to lug around) etc and the issue is that we have no idea what kind of turnout we will get or grow into. They have another amp system (a 70s looking machine) that did play the music, but I need to go back and check on the quality etc. Neither system has an AUX input for the RCA cable, which is what is recommended. On the 70s machine I was plugged in through the tape inputs.
If you end up buying something, I'm really happy with my Mackie SRM150. It's a bit bigger than a toaster, more power than a passport 150 with similar functionality. The Mackie has a 3 channel mixer built in with 2 TRS/XLR inputs (mic or guitar) and one stereo line level RCA. With adapters, you can use the 2 TRS in tandem to connect a total of 2 stereo RCA inputs.

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#7 Post by Surreal » Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:29 am

I wouldn't recommend a guitar amp as they tend to sound terrible when you're trying to fill up a room (quality varies quite a lot though). However, they are easy to find and generally cheap, so they make a reasonable backup. Even if you don't get one with an aux input, you can just buy an adapter to fit into the 1/4 plug.

Pawn shops always have a lot of "discount" audio gear kicking around. Bring along an mp3 player and some cables to make sure the stuff works first. Try checking out ebay or craiglist for any local stuff. I always come across powered speakers and mixers for sale when I'm browsing around.

I think the Mackie 150 that Dave mentioned is a good system. Yamaha also makes a Stagepas "portable" system, though it isn't as compact as the Passports or Peaveys.

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Cyrano de Maniac
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#8 Post by Cyrano de Maniac » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:14 am

Surreal wrote:I wouldn't recommend a guitar amp as they tend to sound terrible when you're trying to fill up a room (quality varies quite a lot though). However, they are easy to find and generally cheap, so they make a reasonable backup. Even if you don't get one with an aux input, you can just buy an adapter to fit into the 1/4 plug.
That's why I mentioned getting one with an AUX input specifically designed for play-along purposes.

You're correct that a guitar amp will sound terrible when trying to fill a room -- but you're likely referring to using the 1/4" plug input where you'd normally connect a guitar. That input is designed to accept the low-level high-impedance signal from guitar pickups, not for a line-level signal -- you'll certainly get distortion from it if you try running a laptop or iPod through that input.

Also, unless designed for full-range output (which I think the "play along" types are), guitar amps typically roll off their frequency response toward the low and high end, in effect emphasizing the mid frequencies. That'll make them sound bad for DJing purposes as well.

Keyboard amps, on the other hand, are typically designed for full-range output as many synthesizer sounds require. I think that might be part of the reason I've seen inexpensive guitar amps, but never an inexpensive keyboard amp.

All that said, there's probably no substitute for trying out a piece of equipment to experience how it sounds before making a purchasing decision. With used gear in particular, you'll want to put it through some paces such as low and high volume playback, adjusting controls to check for damage and/or scratchiness, listening to noise levels, and the like before buying.

Brent

Surreal
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#9 Post by Surreal » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:44 am

but you're likely referring to using the 1/4" plug input where you'd normally connect a guitar
I've tried both on a few different amps and both sound lousy, but admittedly I haven't tried on any newer amps. Mostly just older "garage band" ones. Like you said, guitar amps typically aren't designed for full range sound. I've never tried a keyboard amp though.

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