DJ'ing with records - Could you do it?

It's all about the equipment

Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy

Message
Author
User avatar
fredo
Posts: 259
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:59 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

#61 Post by fredo » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:35 pm

The difference is, you can get better at working turntables. Your timing, or whatever, will improve as you play. CDs will always be the same-- they're idiot proof.

User avatar
OneTrueDabe
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:30 pm
Location: Washington, DC
Contact:

#62 Post by OneTrueDabe » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:49 pm

remysun wrote:Like start the vinyl version of "Don't Be That Way" with lots of treble, no bass, then after the first lick, kick in the CD to blast the sound into the 21st Century.
I like where your head is -- but any mixer with a 3-band EQ (or even the "Window -> Equalizer" in iTunes) could provide the same effect -- set your EQs to a diagonal line, e.g., then at the right moment -- or shortly before; iTunes has a slight delay -- uncheck the "On" box, or switch the pull-down back to "flat" / normal.

BACK to vinyl, though -- I'm sure the basic, "Play a song, let it finish, play another," approach that most swing dancers expect COULD be done, but why bother?

If you're using records, impress me by beat juggling or beat matching -- something that CAN'T be done with iTunes! Unfortunately, that's not appropriate for actual DANCES, though, unless you could squeeze three or four songs into ~4-5 minutes. Any longer than that and most leaders run out of moves, which is why they have to change partners so often! Haha! ;-)

--
:- Dabe

User avatar
remysun
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:39 pm
Location: Motown

#63 Post by remysun » Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:34 am

Lawrence wrote: That brief process you described is so much more difficult than insert CD, forward to track number, play. It would throw off most people's timing. They could do it, but it would throw them off.
The neutral way was how I was trained to do it at the Explorer Program for Specs Howard School of the Broadcast Arts, back in high school.

I'd been dropping the needle on a Show'N Tell player long before that, but I think saying a kid could do it is asking for a flame. :shock:
fredo wrote: CDs will always be the same-- they're idiot proof.
Dr. Neil De Grasse Tyson once said that when he really wanted to concentrate on what he wanted to write, he'd use a quill pen, because with the process only capable of a few letters at a time, he forced himself to carefully choose his words.

So, I'm not sure idiot proof is always a good thing. I am always in awe of someone who takes care of their vinyl-- that's a skill. Likewise, it seems that a choice made with vinyl would have more intent than a CD, which can be slapped on and ready in seconds.

I definitely notice less thought with mp3s. Many DJs have a playlist already put together, which does not take the crowd and moment into the situation, and inevitably leads to repetition.

As Marshall McLuhan said, "The medium is the message." Perhaps, playing vinyl means that the DJ is also an artisan, as valuable to the performance as the content itself.

Nate Dogg
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2002 3:29 pm
Location: Austin, TX

#64 Post by Nate Dogg » Sun Nov 04, 2007 9:09 am

For the dancers we play to (partner dancers, not talking about club music, etc...), MP3s and CDs are preferable. The sound quality is good enough, you can carry more music (1000x more music), you can organize your music much better (using mp3 tags, playlists, etc..). The reason most DJs are laptop these days is because most of us see the value.

Just because the technology allows a DJ to be lazy, that does not mean that all laptop DJs are lazy. Many of us take it seriously and we don't like it when our fellow DJs just puts up a playlist and fails to pay attention to the crowd.

I think playing from vinyl is something that might appeal to the DJ, to make things interesting for the DJ. But, most dancers don't care and it is likely to be viewed as a novelty. If the sound quality is off, they are going to be annoyed at the DJ.

Nathan

User avatar
Lawrence
Posts: 1213
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:08 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

#65 Post by Lawrence » Sun Nov 04, 2007 11:08 am

Nate Dogg wrote:For the dancers we play to (partner dancers, not talking about club music, etc...), MP3s and CDs are preferable. The sound quality is good enough, you can carry more music (1000x more music), you can organize your music much better (using mp3 tags, playlists, etc..). The reason most DJs are laptop these days is because most of us see the value.

Just because the technology allows a DJ to be lazy, that does not mean that all laptop DJs are lazy. Many of us take it seriously and we don't like it when our fellow DJs just puts up a playlist and fails to pay attention to the crowd.

I think playing from vinyl is something that might appeal to the DJ, to make things interesting for the DJ. But, most dancers don't care and it is likely to be viewed as a novelty. If the sound quality is off, they are going to be annoyed at the DJ.

Nathan
Exactly.

Moreover, I tend to use the extra time to either relax and remain focused (instead of feeling rushed and distracted). To address the analogy of writing with a quill, it's not like using a word processor FORCES you to type faster than you write; it gives you the LUXURY of being able to do so, plus the luxury of editing, cutting, quoting, proofing, spell-checking, etc....
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

User avatar
trev
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

#66 Post by trev » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:10 pm

I'll be trying out an all-vinyl set at our monthly dance this Saturday night. I like the idea of providing something different, both in the music selection and the performance aspect of a DJ on stage using turntables - and I like the personal challenge. I also like that I can have a "now playing" stand where I can display the record cover. It may not work out and the dancers may not care, but I'm keen to give it a go. I'll report back on how it goes. 8)

User avatar
trev
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

#67 Post by trev » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:28 pm

Thought I'd post a bit of an update on how the vinyl gig went.

I was supporting a live band and we had a mini DJ vs band battle where we traded songs, culminating with the band playing over the top of (and eventually taking over on) Duke's C-Jam blues (50s version). Overall it worked out really well. I had a lot of fun, it was a real challenge and there was a great atmosphere in the room. Lots of good feedback and I think the dancers appreciated that we were doing something different.

Image

One thing to watch out for: enthusiastic friends who come up to talk to you and bump the desk and skip the record - fortunately it was right at the end of a track anyway.

I wouldn't want to do the vinyl thing regularly - it requires a LOT more effort and there's just so much more freedom with a laptop - but it's fun for a special occasion.
Last edited by trev on Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
remysun
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:39 pm
Location: Motown

#68 Post by remysun » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:32 pm

That looked awesome. I wished you YouTubed the battle. One thing about vinyl, the album cover is as big as the music. Great pic.

User avatar
trev
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

#69 Post by trev » Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:11 am

remysun wrote:That looked awesome. I wished you YouTubed the battle.
Ah, I didn't think of that - maybe next time ;)

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#70 Post by Eyeball » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:41 am

Did you feel any more connected to the music than you would have using CDs or a laptop?
Will big bands ever come back?

User avatar
trev
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

#71 Post by trev » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:07 am

Eyeball wrote:Did you feel any more connected to the music than you would have using CDs or a laptop?
I'd say I felt more connected to the process of playing music for dancers: There was much more hands-on work to do, and I enjoyed the tactile experience, so in that regard, yes. But in terms of connected as a listening experience; the physical tasks were much more consuming and therefore there was less space to think about and appreciate what was happening musically and react.

User avatar
Eyeball
Posts: 1919
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:11 am
Contact:

#72 Post by Eyeball » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:02 pm

trev wrote:
Eyeball wrote:Did you feel any more connected to the music than you would have using CDs or a laptop?
I'd say I felt more connected to the process of playing music for dancers: There was much more hands-on work to do, and I enjoyed the tactile experience, so in that regard, yes. But in terms of connected as a listening experience; the physical tasks were much more consuming and therefore there was less space to think about and appreciate what was happening musically and react.
Well maybe if the LP DJing becomes second nature you will be able to feel that visceral connection, if any.
Will big bands ever come back?

User avatar
Lippy
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

#73 Post by Lippy » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:22 am

Trev...I noticed that you had an issue with someone bumping into the table while you were playing vinyl and had a little skip. I've recently made a habit of bringing along a simple addition to my vinyl setup making my records nearly "skip proof". It's an old trick that a lot of club DJ's use (which is where I started using it) because of so much vibration on the floor.

Buy yourself some cheap tuna. Throw the tuna away and clean the cans. Wrap rubber bands in all directions around the tuna can to create mini trampolines (you can adjust the tension by adding or subtracting rubber bands from each can). Set your turntables feet in the cans, and you've got suspended turntables that "wiggle". I've had people bump the table pretty hard or jump right in front of the records and they don't skip.

User avatar
trev
Posts: 736
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 8:20 pm
Location: Perth, Australia

#74 Post by trev » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:14 pm

I did another vinyl set last weekend. It went well but it did leave me with a "what's the point?" feeling.

You have to lug around heaps of gear. It's much more difficult to find and locate the track you want to play. You have to find the groove to cue up each track, and there's not much time if you change your mind about a track. All the transitions are manual and then you have to put away the record you just played. The sound needs more regular EQing. You have to remember if it's 45rpm or 33.3 rpm or even 78rpm. You have to be careful not to bump things. All this and hardly anyone notices or cares - they're just there to dance.

The only benefit I can see now to DJing vinyl is that it's visually more interesting (more of a show) than having someone in the corner sitting with a laptop. There'll be a few geeks come check out what you're doing and talk about how their uncle just got rid of their Glenn Miller LP collection. And there's a buzz when you drop the needle and cue up the next track with 10 seconds left and it's a seamless transition. Other than that everything else is just so much harder.

I sorted out my desk-bumping/vibration worries with an old DJ trick. I bought 8 squash balls and placed them under 2 concrete paving stones. This isolates the turntables enough that stomping dancers a metre away on the same floor could not disturb the needle. So technically my setup is working pretty well.

Again, only for special occasions!

Haydn
Posts: 1277
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 5:36 am
Location: London

#75 Post by Haydn » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:00 pm

One reason I enjoy DJs using vinyl is that a lot of old music just sounds better.

Locked