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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:12 pm
by remysun
Lawrence wrote:
penguin wrote:There is one huge disadvantage of laptop DJ'ing though.

It encourages irresponsible DJ'ing. It's way too easy to set up a playlist and go off and have a few dances. The number of times I have seen unattended laptops just sitting there chugging away while the DJ cuts a rug....
The problem there is not the laptop, but the DJ.
But the laptop is an enabling device and therefore evil.

I totally agree that it encourages thoughtless playlist playing. UNLESS that playlist is SCRAPPED and uniquely REBUILT for every performance, a repetition that defines the DJ occurs. Once people know they're not getting anything outside of that, the excitement is gone. And if the DJ's a regular, the venue is gone.

Momentum is everything.
That problem is possible (and has happened) with CD's too. Not only can you burn a specific set beforehand and let it run unattended, a truly lazy DJ can just burn a bunch of mix CDs that they play over and over end-to-end.
True. I don't advocate any laziness. Three burned discs did the Atomic Dog in. But laptops killed the other venues.

Effort is everything.
Moreover, with a laptop, you can change a pre-selected set on the fly, whereas you can't change a pre-burned CD.
I find that laptop DJs are less accomodating of requests. They're stuck with what they have. They can't accomodate CDs, and it's often too hard to do equipment swaps.

Accomodation is everything.
The laptop at least allows the lazy DJs to change it up if the DJ notices that he needs to change it up or if someone complains.
I have yet to see it happen. That playlist is like the Titanic's rudder-- it doesn't make a big enough turn to avoid the Iceberg. At least, you can make a last second swap of a bad selection with a CD that has several good tunes to choose from, and choose the track at the last possible second. Laptop DJ's don't have that slew rate.

Computers suck. I am very bitter about the resulting laziness.

To me, that means everything.

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:05 am
by Lawrence
remysun wrote: I find that laptop DJs are less accomodating of requests. They're stuck with what they have. They can't accomodate CDs, and it's often too hard to do equipment swaps.
Your laptop doesn't have an optical CD drive? (Oh my God, I just said the same thing as Reuben!)
The laptop at least allows the lazy DJs to change it up if the DJ notices that he needs to change it up or if someone complains.
I have yet to see it happen. That playlist is like the Titanic's rudder-- it doesn't make a big enough turn to avoid the Iceberg. At least, you can make a last second swap of a bad selection with a CD that has several good tunes to choose from, and choose the track at the last possible second. Laptop DJ's don't have that slew rate.
You apparently either have a lot of really bad DJs there, or you have not used a laptop to DJ, yourself. Once you get accustomed to the change, finding a new song is INCREDIBLY easier, and making a change on the fly is MUCH quicker.

You don't need to sort through CDs to find "that CD;" you don't need to remember which CD 'that song" is on; you don't need to wait for a drive door to open, close, and read the CD; you don't need to look back and verify which track number it is; and if it wasn't the right version or song, you don't need to do it all over again to find the right CD that contains the right version or song. All you need to do is sort all the songs alphabetically, then find your song, and click on it to add it as the next to play, or to put it at the end of the playlist. Takes less than five seconds. If we "raced," before you found the first CD that MIGHT have "that song," I would have already found "that song" plus several different versions of "that song," all quickly assembled together so I can listen to each one seamlessly. And I could change up the search by BPM, artist, album, genre, or any number of custom made tags I might think of.

For example, I DJed a West Coast dance a few weeks ago, and had carefully picked a playlist of really great songs from 100-140 BPM, just so I was more prepared. I get there, and anything over 105 BPM bombs. The other DJ told me that they dig really slower stuff: almost like a so-called "Blues" dance. Surprising, but no problem. I saved the playlist for future ideas, then completely scrapped all the songs over 105 (about 90% of them) and rebuilt the playlist. Because I had enough songs cued up that were under 110 BPM, I had the luxury of being able to play those while I completely rebuilt the rest of the playlist. And instead of just playing those remaining songs blindly in order, sometimes I added a new song I found as the next to play (if it fit in), and sometimes I just put a new song I found in the playlist as a possible idea for later. Really no panic, no problem, and I completely avoided the iceberg.

The point is, it not only is possible to change things up rather dramatically, I actually did it just a couple weeks ago with no problem, whatsoever.

CDs are not horrible; I used them for years and transitioned kinda late in the game, myself, because I had so many custom-made CD-Rs that I knew well. It is just that everything you complain about laptop DJing manifests a problem with the DJ, not the laptop. The toughest thing is getting accustomed to a new set of habits; but once you do, the database organization and search functions make it MUCH easier to DJ on a laptop. Yes, you CAN get lazy, but it is not like it is impossible to get lazy when DJing from CDs. If you really insist on making it more difficult, why not just DJ from vinyl or cassette tapes, exclusively. You REALLY won't have time to get lazy, then.

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:23 am
by SoundInMotionDJ
Lawrence wrote:
remysun wrote: I find that laptop DJs are less accomodating of requests. They're stuck with what they have. They can't accomodate CDs, and it's often too hard to do equipment swaps.
Your laptop doesn't have an optical CD drive? (Oh my God, I just said the same thing as Reuben!)
One of my laptops does not have an optical drive. The laptop is in the "ultra portable" category....and does not have space for an internal optical drive. I have a USB optical drive...but it does not always go with me.

Another of my laptops has an optical drive, but I remove it to put in a second battery. So, I trade an optical drive for 6 additional hours of battery life. This is an old(er) laptop, so by the time I plug in the USB sound card, and the USB hard drive with all my music on it, there is not a spare USB port for the USB optical drive. I could use a hub, but I'd have to remember to plug that in at the beginning of the night... :roll:

Either way, if I have one of those two laptops and I did not bring the corresponding optical drive, then a CD based request is SOL...then again, I have not had a CD based request in more than two years...

--Stan Graves

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:40 am
by Nate Dogg
I think it has been said, you can buy a portable CD drive that plugs right into your laptop's USB drive, not that expensive, you can have your cake and eat it to. If you laptop does not have enough USB ports, you can buy a hub to fix the problem.

If somebody actually believes that using carrying around books of hundreds of CDs is more effective than using laptops and hard drives, they have probably not seen a laptop DJ do it right. Being a lazy DJ is the fault of the DJ, not the technology. If you organize your files, optimize your system to allow you to be preview, you can be very nimble as a laptop DJ.

Finally, beyond the DJ preference issue, every venue needs either a backup computer or a CD player in case there are issue's with the DJs laptop, unfortunate thing happen. In the past, on the instance when my laptop acted up, I reverted to playing CD-Rs. I keep about 10 CDR compilations on me in my laptop case, for emergencies.

Nathan

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:44 pm
by Surreal
SoundInMotionDJ wrote:Another of my laptops has an optical drive, but I remove it to put in a second battery. So, I trade an optical drive for 6 additional hours of battery life.
I didn't even know they made such things.

Great, more toys to spend money on. Not that I need to spend the money, but hey, it's an excuse to buy toys...

edit: so what are these extra batteries called? I can't seem to find anything off google

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:47 pm
by Lawrence
Surreal wrote:
SoundInMotionDJ wrote:Another of my laptops has an optical drive, but I remove it to put in a second battery. So, I trade an optical drive for 6 additional hours of battery life.
I didn't even know they made such things.

Great, more toys to spend money on. Not that I need to spend the money, but hey, it's an excuse to buy toys...

edit: so what are these extra batteries called? I can't seem to find anything off google
I think your computer needs to be equipped for it. Some Dell and Sony VAIO models offer the swap.

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:19 pm
by remysun
Lawrence wrote: Your laptop doesn't have an optical CD drive? (Oh my God, I just said the same thing as Reuben!)
Actually, I should modify that many are moving away-- if not to a laptop, to an iPod, which is even worse, because of the total lack of accomodation for CDs.
You apparently either have a lot of really bad DJs there, or you have not used a laptop to DJ, yourself.
Your words, not mine. I'm not gonna step on that land mine again. BTW, I've used a laptop as a playlist, but do not have internal software for DJing. My fingers also cramp when using the mouse pad, and I'm a very spread myself out kind of guy. I personally find that lugging my CDs forces me to change up my selection, limit my novelties, keep it fresh, etc.
Yes, you CAN get lazy, but it is not like it is impossible to get lazy when DJing from CDs. If you really insist on making it more difficult, why not just DJ from vinyl or cassette tapes, exclusively. You REALLY won't have time to get lazy, then.
The problem is lazy DJs period. I just think that computers make it easier for them to exist. Some don't even bother with a second station or any way to transition. As a result, dancers are often at the whim of the end of a track. And like I've said, a regular playlist is about the laziest thing any DJ can have, because at that point, you just need the songs and not the DJ.

One last disadvantage I forgot to mention was the horrible quality of some of the sound files that the pod people try to pass off. It's true that a CD can be of poor quality, but people know that beforehand from playing the CD on quality home equipment.

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:27 pm
by remysun
penguin wrote:There is one huge disadvantage of laptop DJ'ing though.

It encourages irresponsible DJ'ing. It's way too easy to set up a playlist and go off and have a few dances. The number of times I have seen unattended laptops just sitting there chugging away while the DJ cuts a rug....
Actually, I can steal an extra CD song of dancing from my ION by setting the playing track to single mode, leaving the fader in the middle, and turning on Fader Activated Play. The transition is automatic. I make sure I'm very close to the booth though, just in case things go wrong.

Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 9:30 pm
by remysun
The worst playlist is the one that doesn't even make it through the dance, and you hear the same song two or three times in an evening.

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:45 pm
by SoundInMotionDJ
Surreal wrote:
SoundInMotionDJ wrote:Another of my laptops has an optical drive, but I remove it to put in a second battery. So, I trade an optical drive for 6 additional hours of battery life.
I didn't even know they made such things.

Great, more toys to spend money on. Not that I need to spend the money, but hey, it's an excuse to buy toys...

edit: so what are these extra batteries called? I can't seem to find anything off google
Most "business" class laptops offer that feature. Mine is a HP.

--Stan Graves

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:55 pm
by Nate Dogg
remysun wrote: The problem is lazy DJs period. I just think that computers make it easier for them to exist. Some don't even bother with a second station or any way to transition. As a result, dancers are often at the whim of the end of a track. And like I've said, a regular playlist is about the laziest thing any DJ can have, because at that point, you just need the songs and not the DJ.
Digital music has lowered the cost of entry into the DJ world, and the conventional CD was where digital music for the masses started. Laptop MP3s are the natural progression. Today, anybody who has a device, can afford to buy tunes online, or in other cases, anybody who gets songs off other dancer's hard drives, can have enough material to be a DJ. In a number of cases, these DJs serve the dancers just fine. In other cases, they don't.

In the old days, DJs had to spent a lot more money and time to build their collection. A lot of the DJs today would never have been DJs in 1995, the technology was not there to make it cheap and easy for them.

The world we live in has laptops, iPods, CDs, CD-Rs, used CD websites, iTunes, eMusic, Amazon, great web sites for sharing information, etc... Some DJs will use the technology to become more efficient and better DJs, in other cases the technology will allow some yahoo to think he is a DJ and do fundamentally unsound stuff like just letting the same playlist run every week. I will tell you this much, I have more variety in my sets using MP3s then when I was CD based, I think most DJs will agree with that.

DJing is not going back to being CD based. Not going to happen. That is reality. It will keep up with technology. I think there is still a need to have CD players for requests and as back-up if the laptop fails, but there will be a time where the CDs bays are no longer needed, that day might not be that far away. Heck, if you discount the request angle, maybe were are already there, just have a cheap flash memory player or some other device on hand with music in case something goes wrong.

There is really nothing you can do about the bad DJs, except maybe work with them directly, show them the possibilities, encourage them to join this group, over time they might learn something from their peers and not suck as much.


Nathan

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:44 pm
by Mr Awesomer
Wait, there are dancers out there who come to dances armed with their favorite CDs to pester the DJs with!?!

Just when you thought dancers couldn't get any lamer.

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:09 pm
by Lawrence
Nate Dogg wrote: Heck, if you discount the request angle, maybe were are already there, just have a cheap flash memory player or some other device on hand with music in case something goes wrong.
I didn't even THINK about how much easier it would be to have an IPod Nono or even a cheaper player (or two) handy as a backup in case a laptop goes awry. Even that would be easier than lugging CDs around as a backup.

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:37 pm
by remysun
Mr Awesomer wrote:Wait, there are dancers out there who come to dances armed with their favorite CDs to pester the DJs with!?!
Favorite? No! The DJ should already have the favorites.

A new song that the DJ might not be aware of, or in the case of student DJs, might not have the budget for?

What's lame is a DJ foisting the same few songs onto the scene until everyone's sick of the music and stops bothering to come.

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:51 pm
by lipi
remysun wrote:
Mr Awesomer wrote:Wait, there are dancers out there who come to dances armed with their favorite CDs to pester the DJs with!?!
Favorite? No! The DJ should already have the favorites.
o.k. you're killing me here. are you intentionally misinterpreting everything people write? i'm sure that even nathan doesn't have everybody's pet song.
What's lame is a DJ foisting the same few songs onto the scene until everyone's sick of the music and stops bothering to come.
WE GET IT. you've made your point. bad djs are bad. setting a playlist on repeat is evil. everybody agrees with you. you are truly an enlightened dj master and we thank you for your continued edification on this topic. however, this is not what this thread is (o.k.: was) about.

there are fun threads archived (i think here, but definitely in the yahoo group) about people burning a cd and letting it play on repeat all night, every night. this is not a new thing you've discovered here. it's not something that was born with laptops. in fact, i'm considering switching back to wax cylinders. i find it makes me focus more on the flow of the music.

now look what you've made me do. and i thought i was the calm one that didn't rant on this board. *grumble*grumble*