Portable PA systems

It's all about the equipment

Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy

Message
Author
User avatar
CafeSavoy
Posts: 1138
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:25 pm
Location: Mobtown
Contact:

#31 Post by CafeSavoy » Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:52 am

tornredcarpet wrote:Thank you brian!
Now, can I get another vote on the Peavey, or some trusted brands?
It also depends on how you define portable. If you want only one unit then you probably have to go with one of those compact systems or a boom box. If you are willing to deal with several items you could get a rack and two speakers. You could either have an amp in the rack or you could use powered speakers.

User avatar
tornredcarpet
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

#32 Post by tornredcarpet » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:10 am

As discussed on the first page, the kind I'm looking for is a portable PA system package with a mixer and/or amp with passive speakers, much like the fender passports or the peavey escorts.
Jesse (Los Angeles, CA/Hampton Roads, VA)

User avatar
Lawrence
Posts: 1213
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:08 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

#33 Post by Lawrence » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:12 am

I keep trying to bring this thread back on topic to PA systems... but we keep going to boom boxes and mixers and stuff...

Lemme try again...
So does anyone have any good PA systems to recommend?
Sorry to try to be helpful. You mentioned that price was a huge consideration and that your budget was very limited. Some recommended Passports as a cheap option. The other "box-and-go speech-designed systems are the same thing with different brand names; nobody makes a truly good quality, cheap, lightweight, portable system that you want. Instead of those speech-designed systems, we pointed out that you would be better off getting a portable stereo for the sound quality, but that you would need one with an "Aux" input and a mixer so you could cue/preview. Forgive me if I don't see too much of a hijack going on there. "Stay away from (X)" recommendations can be as valueable as "Get (Y)" recommendations.

Portable stereos also fit the bill of a pre-fab, inexpensive system you requested; when getting into a PA system, you get into so many variables that generalized advice doesn't help. If you DO want to buy a serious PA system, there is so much diversity out there and difference in availability throughout the country that you really need to find a dealer you trust and work with him. Most of us (myself included) ended up with systems we either inherited or that we pieced together through a deal here, a friend with unused speakers there, etc., so our experience is not so well-informed as someone who works with different systems on a daily basis.

I can offer this much: your system should be designed to your needs, not just a pre-fab of what others have used on the other side of the country in venues you don't know. If you have a small to mid-sized venue (in a local bar or under 1000 sq feet), you don't need a professional amp system, even though you could use one if you wanted. (Oops, sorry, I'm hijacking again).

There is also a good reason that CD players, mixers, and amps are all sold separately instead of in pre-fab systems. The size amp and speakers you need will depend on the size of your venue, as well as your needs as to portability. The mixer you need will depend on how many inputs you want, whether you want to use microphones, cue and preview featurs, want beat-matching (speed up or slow down BPMs) features, etc. The CD player you need will depend on your budget and desires, as well. You also should get a power-conditioner, which is a fancy, beefed-up power bar that ensures the equipment receives the proper electrical current, which also is not included in a pre-fab system.

Once you select the components that fit your needs, you can achieve portability by putting your system into a DJ box, which is essentially a stereo rack mounted inside a shock-resistent shell. By putting all the components in a DJ box, you can achieve the portability you wanted from the pre-fab Passport-like systems. Indeed, it will be more portable because the CD player and mixer will be in the same box as the amp.

My system has a Gemini mixer, Numark CD Player, and something like an Equinox amp and a power conditioner that all slips into a DJ box. Having the slim-profile amp (as well as all the other individually picked components) inside the DJ box reduces clutter and makes set-up much easier. The guy from whom I bought it designed it so all I need to do is carry it into a venue, plug in the speakers, and go; quite unlike other set-ups where you need to make a lot more connections when setting up (say, with an amp or other pieces that are outside the DJ box).

My Gemini mixer has flaked out, but I can't vouch for whether that is typical. Gemini generally is not as good as Numark, which is generally not as good as Denon.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

User avatar
tornredcarpet
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:05 pm
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Contact:

#34 Post by tornredcarpet » Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:23 pm

Ah... thank you Lawrence- that explains why the topic kept drifting in that direction.

I don't know where I mentioned or came across that I have a limited budget, but I am fortunate as not be in that situation. Granted, it would be better to spend less, but I'd rather spend more and not get stuck with something that's pretty much worthless. I do have a budget of about $1500 (if you even want to call it a budget), although I would much rather spend that on acquisition of good jazz.

Gemzombie was explaining to me yesterday why some DJ boxes were having the problems I was seeing and helped dispel some of my fears regarding building/using one, and I guess I will be looking into buying things separately now.

I guess I do have enough opinions now that prefab PA systems are incredibly portable for their size, but not recommended for their subpar sound quality and their flimsiness.
Jesse (Los Angeles, CA/Hampton Roads, VA)

User avatar
Lawrence
Posts: 1213
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2002 2:08 pm
Location: Austin, Texas
Contact:

#35 Post by Lawrence » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:39 pm

tornredcarpet wrote:Granted, it would be better to spend less, but I'd rather spend more and not get stuck with something that's pretty much worthless. I do have a budget of about $1500 (if you even want to call it a budget), although I would much rather spend that on acquisition of good jazz.
$1500 should get you a workable setup, but not with speakers. Speakers, themselves can easily eat up most of a $1500 budget, themselves.

Like I said, you should consider the slim-profile amps that attach to the stereo racks in the DJ boxes, as opposed to stand-alone amps. The slim-prifile amps will make the box significantly heavier, but it allows you to make all the connections in the box and keep them connected when you travel. Then whenever you set up, you just plug speakers into the amp and go. Moreover, decent stand-alone amps are usually designed for music instrument plug-ins, and thus have features (reverb, EQ, separate channels) that you generally would not use as a DJ. For a DJ, the mixer gives you all the flexibility you need; you just need the amp to amplify the sound.

You also might want to go to a sound equipment rental place (if you have one) and rent different set-up first to get a feel for what works in your venue and what does not. Some venues will need brighter speakers, others will need a subwoofer, and so on. The guys at rental places can also be very knowledgeable because they deal with the equipment on a much higher volume than retailers: twenty to fifty rentals for every single sale at a retailer. They also are not out to sell you something so much as explain how different set-ups you are renting actually work, including the pitfalls and benefits of different set-ups.

Musicians will know where equipment rental places are in town.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

User avatar
GemZombie
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:46 pm
Location: Alpharetta, GA (Formerly SLO, CA)
Contact:

#36 Post by GemZombie » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:55 pm

Lawrence wrote:
$1500 should get you a workable setup, but not with speakers. Speakers, themselves can easily eat up most of a $1500 budget, themselves.
I disagree with the cost assesment. I put together a full functional and more than adequate setup for way less than $1000 that included speakers. I mixed and matched things, and bought some new, some old.

Toon Town Dave
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:52 pm
Location: Saskatoon, Canada

#37 Post by Toon Town Dave » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:59 pm

Indeed, I picked up my gemini CD player used but in good condition off e-bay from a DJ who was upgrading. It's served me well for a lot less cost than new. I was going to upgrade it but I might look at keeping it and upgrading my mixer to one of those Numark gizmos mentioned earlier.

The one advantage to a component based system is you can incrementally upgrade it. With something like a passport, there is less option to get bigger speakers in the future. It's one of the reasons why I was convinced the CD-Mix devices from Numark are not a great idea, the only upgrade path is to replace it.

If you have components, you can upgrade one at a time, either selling/trading in the old to offset the cost or keeping the old as a backup.

I have found pricing out powered speakers is a little less expensive choice than an amp and unpowered speakers for a starter system. The tradeoff as Lawrence mentioned is there are additional connections needed (for power).

As far as cost, I agree with Jesse, the entry level cost can be pretty close. Here's an example in Canadian dollars for all new gear:
2 x Behringer Eurolive B212A 400-Watt 2-Way PA Powered Speaker @ $320
1 x Behringer VMX100, 2-Channel DJ Mixer with Beat Counter @ $110
1 x Numark CDN35 Dual CD Player @ $530
1 x RoadReady RRDJWS2 DJ Road Case 3 Section (probably overkill) $ 280
Misc cables, etc $50
Total: CAD$1610 = USD$1336
That's all new, you could get cheaper brand, used or both CD player for under $200 and you should be able to find a cheaper case to house the gear.

The two speakers effectively give you way more power (3x) than a Passport 250 for about the same ballpark cost (a little over USD$500). I can't vouch for those speakers but I'm sure they'd sound at least as good as the passport.

To sum up on number of things to carry or connect during setup:

PA + CD/Mixer Rack:
- 2 Pieces of equipment
- 2 power connections
- 3 audio connections (mixer to PA, 2xPA to speaker)

Boom Box + CD/Mixer Rack:
- 2 Pieces of equipment
- 2 power connections
- 1 Audio connection (3 for bookshelf stereo)

Unpowered speakers + Amp/CD/Mixer Rack
- 3 Pieces of equipment
- 1 power connection
- 2 audio connections

Powered Speakers + CD/Mixer Rack
- 3 Pieces of equipment
- 3 power connections
- 2 audio connections

moosiker
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:17 am

Yamaha Stage Pas 300 (500!)

#38 Post by moosiker » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:15 pm

Whew! My first post.

I have a Yamaha StagePas 300. It has worked really well for small to medium halls. Hook in laptops, iPods, CD players, MP3 players, sound cards, etc.

Good sound from small speakers. Easily transported (bag has nice wheels on it). You can find them from $500 to 650 on the net.

They recently came out with the 500 series...Dual 250 watt amp with 10 channels. A little bit bigger, but I believe this could work really well for most...$999 (you can find places that give you speaker stands and such for free!).

Mike aka "moose"

Surreal
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

#39 Post by Surreal » Sun Jan 20, 2008 1:29 am

I was randomly web surfing for speaker systems and came across the Cambridge SoundWorks Model Twelve (links below):
http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/stor ... m=c1md12ee
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-SoundWo ... B000068PKB

They look interesting... anyone have any experience with these? What kind of sound do they put out? Can you use it as a small PA?

Surreal
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

#40 Post by Surreal » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:46 pm

I know the passports don't seem to get much love here, but the Passport 150 is on sale right now for almost half price: http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Passport-1 ... B0002KZQ20

Toon Town Dave
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:52 pm
Location: Saskatoon, Canada

#41 Post by Toon Town Dave » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:23 am

On a subset of this topic, besides the Passport, are there any other decent units that can be battery powered?

We've had a lot of new swing dancers joining our scene in recent months, if they start coming to our outdoor dances in the summer, we're going to need to upgrade from a boom box to something a little bigger. Something with detachable speakers that can be mounted on tripods would also help.

Surreal
Posts: 402
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:31 pm
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

#42 Post by Surreal » Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:16 am

Battery powered? I don't recall seeing too many "big" systems outside of boomboxes that run on battery power... the only one that comes to mind is this one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=600315

Toon Town Dave
Posts: 661
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:52 pm
Location: Saskatoon, Canada

#43 Post by Toon Town Dave » Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:30 pm

I don't require a built-in battery per-se but something that can run off DC power either via it's own battery pack or a 12V source (like a car battery or appropriate size sealed lead acid battery). There is no power source anywhere near the dance location in the middle of a riverfront park.

The passport has this battery pack available which I believe connects with a MATE-N-LOK connector (similar to a Molex connector you'd find in a computer).

User avatar
Cyrano de Maniac
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:11 pm
Location: South Saint Paul, Minnesota
Contact:

#44 Post by Cyrano de Maniac » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:26 pm

For self-powered speakers, I've used Mackie SRM450 units or their smaller bretheren (or older versions) from time to time for both DJ'd and live sound gigs (not all dances, mind you). I have absolutely no complaints about them, and heartily endorse them. I hope to pick up a pair for myself sometime in the next year or two. Four of them plus a subwoofer can easily fill a 3000-4000 square foot room.

No, they're not the same as passive units with external amps. But I challenge you to find people in the general population (i.e. dancers) who can tell the difference. Plus, without amps in your DJ rack, the rack is a lot lighter to lug around.

To save yourself some money in general, you may want to talk to your local pro audio shops, and find out when they sell off their used rental equipment, be it mixers or amps or otherwise. For example, a few spots here in the Twin Cities sell their rental equipment once each year, to do their own equipment refresh cycle. Usually this equipment is in very good shape, though it'll obviously show some wear-and-tear. There's some deals to be had though, and you can usually be assured that you'll get things in good working order, perhaps even with a little 30-day guarantee behind it or something like that.

Brent

User avatar
Nima
Posts: 38
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:39 am
Location: Atlanta, GA
Contact:

#45 Post by Nima » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:12 pm

Toon Town Dave wrote:Something with detachable speakers that can be mounted on tripods would also help.
You mean Speaker stands right? I don't think that many tripods can handle a 15-20 lb (minimum) speakers that would cost you less than speaker stands.
Image

Locked