Austin Exchange - the Theme WAS trumped by Music

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Lawrence
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Re: Austin Exchange - the Theme will be trumped by Music

#16 Post by Lawrence » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:37 am

Nate Dogg wrote:
Shorty Dave wrote:
Lawrence wrote:However, we will have sizeable alternative rooms for Classic swing, Slow Blues dancing and even "Westie Lindy" (an alternative term to West Coast Swing because it is not technically "WCS" but instead just Lindy patterns to non-swing 4/4 music, like Lou Rawls "Natural Man").
Are there going to be *four* rooms at once? Or just two - a main one and an alternative - and the "theme" of the alternative will be constantly changing throughout the night.

Personally, I'm still undecided if multiple rooms playing a niche is better than just one room with a big mix. But I don't ever recall four different rooms at a lindy event, so if indeed that's the case, it'll be interested to see how well it goes over.
At any given time there will be two rooms. The rooms will have pre-announced musical themes for different segments of time. The advantage to the DJs is that they know what is going on in the other room, so they will be able to contrast better.

The main motiviation for side rooms is dispersion of people, not any desire to segregate a particular music style. Having themes for the rooms makes things more organized, that's all.
Nathan
Correction: we will have two ALTERNATIVE rooms at the main evening dances in addition to the main ballroom, and one or two alternative rooms going concurrently at after hours.

The main motivation is NOT just to disperse people. ("Nothing to see here, move along, people...."). Diverting people out of the main ballroom to relieve over-crowding is only one factor that makes the alternative rooms an even better idea than if we had a smaller Exchange and were diivying up a critical mass of people into less-than-critical masses. We hope to have enough people to provide a critical mass in all rooms.

I have my reservations about side rooms, myself, mostly for the same reasons Kevin and Dave have cited. I also do not like stacking the deck against a DJ in a side room because "everyone" will want to be in the main room where their friends and the band is. I also respect that one of many ideal goals in DJing is to appease all diverse tastes of music within a set, to somehow be able play all genres from Johnny Dodds to Artie Shaw to Basie to Gene Harris to Royal Crown Revue to Jimmy Rogers to Stevie Ray Vaughn to Earth Wind and Fire, and that it would be nice to have every Lindy Hopper be a part of the same, happy family.

But the vast differences between all those styles makes it so that you will almost inevitably not please anyone by trying to please everyone. The music will be less cohesive and more of a mish-mosh of abruptly different styles, especially with multiple DJs playing their "greatest hits" somewhat regardless of what the other DJs played. Moreover, there is a vast variety of music in each of the sub-genre "themes" we chose to make it possible to DJ a fantasticaly interesting and diverse set within those sub-genres.

This set-up gives us the best chance of pleasing the most people. If you don't like what you're hearing in one room, you are assured that another room will not have the same stuff. To borrow and respond to Falty's critique in another thread, there will not be a style-monopoly; it won't be a choice between two DJs of similar styles, but two DJs of different styles. And, unlike some other Exchanges I have been to where "alternative rooms" were some converted closet or hallway, these alternative rooms are adequately sized to provide a good vibe.

Accordingly, in answer to Dave's question, each alternative room will choose a theme and stick with it throughout the night. The themes should remain constant instead of kicking every "slow blues" dancer out so we can play some up-tempo Classic swing when the DJ shift changes.

I am interested to see how it will go over, as well: which is a large part of the reason I wanted to do it.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

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Yakov
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#17 Post by Yakov » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:34 am

jeeezis. no offense intended, Lawrence, but i must say if i were a musician in that band working with you, i'd seriously consider blowing my brains out.

ok, maybe some offense intended.

or maybe this isn't so unusual. is it common for exchange planners to micro-manage the musicians to this degree? maybe that's how you make a good exchange. i've never been on a committee.

-yakov

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#18 Post by Nate Dogg » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:52 am

Yakov wrote:jeeezis. no offense intended, Lawrence, but i must say if i were a musician in that band working with you, i'd seriously consider blowing my brains out.

ok, maybe some offense intended.

or maybe this isn't so unusual. is it common for exchange planners to micro-manage the musicians to this degree? maybe that's how you make a good exchange. i've never been on a committee.

-yakov
I don't know how common it is. But, most folks feel that is necessary. The Austin Exchanges has a real good live music history, for the most part and we want to maintain that. Since, this is a custom made band, assembled for the Exchange (with a precussor gig a few weeks before the Exchange), the muscians need guidance.

Perhaps other Exchanges should have a more hands on arrangement with the bands.

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Ryan
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#19 Post by Ryan » Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:30 am

Lawrence wrote:The tempos of these recordings fit a 60/10/10/10/10 split among tempos: 60% from 130-160 BPM, 10% from 160-200, 10% over 200, 10% 100-130, 10% under 100 (Bluesy ballads: no sweet or jazz ballads).

10% between 160-200???!!!???

I want to avoid more tempo discussions like the plague, but seriously, think about expanding that 60% "midrange" a bit.

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Mr Awesomer
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#20 Post by Mr Awesomer » Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:41 am

You have got to be kidding me.

The 2003 LA/OC Lindy Binge had a custom built band and they didn't need to be told a thing. We sat them in front of a room full of dancers and the interaction between the two set how the night progressed.

Your post indicates to me you've put together a group of amatures who can't be trusted. Where did you find them, the Austin High School Jazz Band? (I know you didn't, but you make it sound like you did.)
Reuben Brown
Southern California

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#21 Post by JesseMiner » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:10 am

From having heard that amazing band last year and seeing the list of suggested songs for this year, that sounds like the ultimate night of dancing for me. I'm so bummed I won't be there to experience it.

Yes, it is quite common to give direction like that to a band. Yes, a professional band is usually totally cool with it. Yes, that tempo split sound perfectly reasonable for the event and something that is going to be loved by the majority of dancers in attendance. Last year this band was the surprise hit of the weekend, blowing everyone away.

Great job, Lawrence!

Jesse

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Ryan
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#22 Post by Ryan » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:16 am

It's one thing to "give direction", and another thing to dictate every small detail to the point where they are robots. Part of beauty of dancing to a live band is the unknown.

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#23 Post by Mr Awesomer » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:21 am

I mostly agree with you Jesse, but I feel a good band would be able to figure this all out without being given such specific direction. Combining a good band and the stereotypical Austin Exchange goer would result in most of these set guidelines just naturally happening. Just seems rather demeaning to the musicians, and also seens to take away the dancers ability to influence how the night goes when the band is being told to follow a model.
Reuben Brown
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#24 Post by CafeSavoy » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:34 am

GuruReuben wrote:I mostly agree with you Jesse, but I feel a good band would be able to figure this all out without being given such specific direction. Combining a good band and the stereotypical Austin Exchange goer would result in most of these set guidelines just naturally happening. Just seems rather demeaning to the musicians, and also seens to take away the dancers ability to influence how the night goes when the band is being told to follow a model.
Bands might not need to be micro managed but not that many musicians play for dancers anymore so they don't really have a feel for what works for dancers. Do you really think that musicians and bands that don't play for dancers will automatically result in those guidelines?

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#25 Post by falty411 » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:35 am

90% of the songs will be under 200 bpm?

im sorry but you guys are going to get really fat
-mikey faltesek

"Dancing is the union of the body with the rhythm and the sound of the music." Al Minns in 1984

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#26 Post by Nate Dogg » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:52 am

falty411 wrote:90% of the songs will be under 200 bpm?

im sorry but you guys are going to get really fat
Oh, you can still lose weight by dancing slower over a longer perioed of time. No need to sprint.

More importantly, people need to be careful about their Mex Mart, BBQ, and Amy's Ice Cream intake. That is why we have too many pudgy dancers out there.

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#27 Post by Nate Dogg » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:01 am

GuruReuben wrote:You have got to be kidding me.

The 2003 LA/OC Lindy Binge had a custom built band and they didn't need to be told a thing. We sat them in front of a room full of dancers and the interaction between the two set how the night progressed.

Your post indicates to me you've put together a group of amatures who can't be trusted. Where did you find them, the Austin High School Jazz Band? (I know you didn't, but you make it sound like you did.)
Yes, there is always the chance that could happen.

There is also an even greater chance that the two won't synch up. I have been to dances where the band never gets it.

Quite frankly, since the music quality at ALX 4 is so important to us, the consensus is to err on the side of caution.

People will remember how good the music sounded, nobody will remember how tightly the band was managed.

Nathan

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#28 Post by julius » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:41 am

I have to admit, it does puzzle me that you'd need to indicate mood and feel to "real jazz musicians" for songs like "Splanky" and "Easy Does It", especially if the charts are already laid out. I mean, those songs are warhorses. It's like saying "OK, Metallica, on your next song, be sure to use a lot of distortion, OK? None of that clean guitar sound, please."

I approve of the big band though. It does sound fun, although I personally would have loved to have the band select its own charts knowing that they were going to play a dance gig instead of a concert gig. I guess my objection is that it smacks of tailoring music to fit dancers instead of dancers fitting the music, which is my perennial complaint with DJed music. It's like you've hired a big band to be, well, a DJ.

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#29 Post by Mr Awesomer » Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:44 am

CafeSavoy wrote:Bands might not need to be micro managed but not that many musicians play for dancers anymore so they don't really have a feel for what works for dancers. Do you really think that musicians and bands that don't play for dancers will automatically result in those guidelines?
Perhaps I'm spoiled by the musicians here in my area, but I've also experienced the phenomenon at various jazz festivals where a decent number of dancers have shown up mid stream and changed the musical flow. The results are quite inspiring considering these are musicians who typically play to an audience of old people who are glued to their chairs. So yes, if the musicians are as talented as Lawrence states they are (and I'm definitely not questioning that aspect of this) I'd be confident that they would fall into these "guidelines" if that's the vibe they got from the dancers present. At the same time, in connection with what Julius pointed out, the band should have the ability to give off a vibe that the dancers would take in.
Reuben Brown
Southern California

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Soupbone
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#30 Post by Soupbone » Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:04 pm

It may just be that the set of musicians you deal with in your area "get" dancers more than other areas, Reuben, which is a fantastic position to be in!

I can't speak to Austin, obviously, (although it does has a reputation as a music center). But, here in Atlanta, the musicians in the various jazz and big bands don't have a durn clue about lindy hop. Mention swing dancing to these cats, and they think "zoot suit riot" more than "tiger rag" (or whatever). So, while they don't have to necessarily be micro-managed, they do have to be guided somewhat.

However, I understand Julius' point about not turning a band into a DJ, and I would hope that the musicians would still be given plenty of leeway inside of general guidelines.
Gary

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