Artie Shaw dead?

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BigBandDJay
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#16 Post by BigBandDJay » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:46 am

A majority of his stuff is undanceable, but such is the case as alot of big bands (that is if you count ballads as undanceable.)

Check out the Self Portrait-Bluebird Anthology Box Set. It contains alot of stuff that was experimental for big band (strings), because that's the way he preferred it. In fact, I believe he called jitterbugs "morons".

However, the set also contains some real dancing stuff, and FAST!

Traffic Jam, Carioca, and Digga Digga Doo just to name a few.

And also not on the set but a great tune would be the Soundies version of "Oh Lady Be Good". One of my personal favorites.

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#17 Post by GemZombie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:59 am

By lack of personality I more meant lack of a "nice" personality :) The guy was a character for sure. I would have loved to have had a chance to talk with him.

I speak only for myself, but by "stiff" i mean some of the songs are a bit too refined and pretty. The Glenn Miller Syndrome if you will.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Shaw fan. He's one of my favorites, if not my absolute favorite. When I find a song of his that is dancable, I usually totally love it. I just have to be honest about the rest of the music and the man himself. :)

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#18 Post by GemZombie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 11:01 am

BigBandDJay wrote:A majority of his stuff is undanceable, but such is the case as alot of big bands (that is if you count ballads as undanceable.)

Check out the Self Portrait-Bluebird Anthology Box Set. It contains alot of stuff that was experimental for big band (strings), because that's the way he preferred it. In fact, I believe he called jitterbugs "morons".

However, the set also contains some real dancing stuff, and FAST!

Traffic Jam, Carioca, and Digga Digga Doo just to name a few.

And also not on the set but a great tune would be the Soundies version of "Oh Lady Be Good". One of my personal favorites.
You can find a live version of that song (well the second half of the song) done at the same tempo. It's called "Double Mellow". (Listen to oh lady be good found on any other collection, then the version from the soundie, and finally "double mellow" and you'll see exactly what i'm talking about... I even mixed the two together in a custom song i made for a choreographed routine that we never performed :P ) I found a copy on an old "laserlight" collection. It's short, but awesome!

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#19 Post by Charleston Charlie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:08 pm

A majority of his stuff is undanceable, but such is the case as alot of big bands (that is if you count ballads as undanceable
Horsepoop. Check out 'Live at The Palladium' and 'It Goes To Your Feet'. Plenty of danceable stuff there. Also "Blues In The Night".

Yes, he played ballads, and everybody back in the day danced to ballads, and that makes it danceable. Basie, Ellington, and Webb all played ballads too. I don't hear anyone saying that these cats don't play dance music. Just because contemporary Lindy hoppers dislike ballads, that doesn't make a ballad undanceable.
By lack of personality I more meant lack of a "nice" personality
Artie was not a nasty guy. He just didn't suffer fools gladly, and the crusty cantankerous stuff comes from the "Seen it all, heard it all" perspective. Put some time in and you will see what I mean. He was actually very polite. He always said "polite is easier". He hated the music business and the mindless adulation that came with success. He was opinionated for sure, but, hey! ANYONE HERE WHO IS NOT RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND. Anyone who takes the time to post on message boards is opinionated. Otherwise you wouldn't be here.
In fact, I believe he called jitterbugs "morons".
That was a misquote; a reporter wrote that out of context. The truth is, he did a show in NYC and some fans mobbed his car and scratched the shit out of it. It was a brand new Packard convertible. Completely understandable reaction, IMO. If somebody scratched my brand new car, then Moron would be a kind and gentle word for that person.
"‘Swing’ is an adjective or a verb, not a noun. All jazz musicians should swing. There is no such thing as a ’swing band’ in music.”-
Artie Shaw

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#20 Post by Charleston Charlie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:14 pm

The Glenn Miller Syndrome
I'm going to pretend I never read that. Absolutely ridic.
"‘Swing’ is an adjective or a verb, not a noun. All jazz musicians should swing. There is no such thing as a ’swing band’ in music.”-
Artie Shaw

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#21 Post by Mr Awesomer » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:16 pm

Charleston Charlie wrote:a bunch of reactionary blabber
For someone so defensive about a person's right to be opinionated, you sure are quick to slam other people for having opinions.
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#22 Post by GemZombie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:21 pm

Charleston Charlie wrote:
The Glenn Miller Syndrome
I'm going to pretend I never read that. Absolutely ridic.
It's one man's opinion. Jeez.

Listen, in my opinion there is an awful lot of Miller music that is so refined that it dulls the music. There is good Miller music, I have some of it.. most of it is live radio recordings. I'm just saying that sometimes a bit of rawness has an asthetic appeal that polished does not. Especially when it comes to music.

It's an opinion, and it's what *I* liked. If you like polished music, good for you... Glenn Miller's your man. He was a good bandleader, a great musician, and hugely popular. I never claimed to that he was anything else.

You also forget that I'm quite the Artie Shaw fan... but i'm not going to blindly say all of his music was wonderful... in my opinion he sometimes overdid stuff, as did Miller.

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#23 Post by CafeSavoy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:37 pm

AlekseyKosygin wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:
mousethief wrote:"I could never understand why people wanted to dance to my music," he once said.
Lots of people wonder the same thing too.
Damn really? What kind of idiot would think that Artie Shaw isn't danceable?
The quote was about Artie Shaw saying that he didn't understand why people wanted to dance to his music. So I assume you are calling him an idiot. But i'm glad to see you are free with your opinions and think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot.

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#24 Post by CafeSavoy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 2:45 pm

GuruReuben wrote:
Charleston Charlie wrote:a bunch of reactionary blabber
For someone so defensive about a person's right to be opinionated, you sure are quick to slam other people for having opinions.
Exactly, especially since Shaw didn't kowtow to sacred cows. Furthermore, differences in opinion weren't restricted to the present day, e.g.,

http://afgen.com/30sjazz.html

"Billie Holiday is still singing with Artie Shaw, but it is a damn shame she has to waste her talents with a band of that calibre ... Artie has a swell outfit, but they don't show Billie off any. Naturally they play white man's jazz and that's no backing for Billie's singing which, even during its more commercial moments, has a definite `race' flavor. When she had Count Basie behind her, the girl was right. Now she's as incongruous as a diamond set in a rosette of old canteloupe rinds and coffee grounds." (Ted Locke, August 1938)

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#25 Post by Mr Awesomer » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:09 pm

Ted Locke, 1938 wrote:"Billie Holiday is still singing with Artie Shaw, but it is a damn shame she has to waste her talents with a band of that calibre ... Artie has a swell outfit, but they don't show Billie off any. Naturally they play white man's jazz and that's no backing for Billie's singing which, even during its more commercial moments, has a definite 'race' flavor. When she had Count Basie behind her, the girl was right. Now she's as incongruous as a diamond set in a rosette of old canteloupe rinds and coffee grounds."
Wow, what a racist. I guess he only wanted whites to play with whites and blacks to play with blacks. Who was Ted Locke anyway? Never heard of him.
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#26 Post by GemZombie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:10 pm

I dunno about that... sounds a little too race oriented to be a non biased musical opinion.

This thread is just strange.

Why are we sitting here arguing about Artie shaw and dancablility and whether or not *he* thought the music was dancable? Just because he supposedly disdained dancers doesn't mean his music isn't dancable.

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#27 Post by CafeSavoy » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:50 pm

GemZombie wrote:Why are we sitting here arguing about Artie shaw and dancablility and whether or not *he* thought the music was dancable? Just because he supposedly disdained dancers doesn't mean his music isn't dancable.
Actually he thought you shouldn't dance to his music because it was good enough for just listening. Apparently he was always pushing his limits. Off topic, does anyone know if he did any other recordings with Count Basie other than that short "Lady Be Good"?

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#28 Post by Charleston Charlie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:50 pm

a bunch of reactionary blabber
Say what? I never used that term. Not even when drunk. Something VERY fishy is going on here. Where the hell did that come from? I have reread my posts and I can't find that anywhere. I can't even recall using 'blabber'.

And where have I said that anyone here was unintitled to an opinion? If I disagree with anyone's opinion and they reply that they're being slammed, then I suggest that said individuals are in need of growing thicker skins- either that, or keep their opinions to themselves. I am perfectly comfortable with disagreeing and being disagreed with.

And it's my opinion that the statement that Artie and Glenn Miller produced similar music is ridiculous.
"‘Swing’ is an adjective or a verb, not a noun. All jazz musicians should swing. There is no such thing as a ’swing band’ in music.”-
Artie Shaw

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#29 Post by Mr Awesomer » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:02 pm

Charleston Charlie wrote:
a bunch of reactionary blabber
Say what? I never used that term. Not even when drunk. Something VERY fishy is going on here. Where the hell did that come from? I have reread my posts and I can't find that anywhere. I can't even recall using 'blabber'.
That was me summarizing your post as a bunch of reactionary blabbler. Read it straight through: Charleston Charlie wrote a bunch of reactionary blabbler. Savvy?
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#30 Post by Charleston Charlie » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:10 pm

The way you wrote it and posted it accrues that statement to me, which is b.s.

And since when is it considered reactionary to disagree with someone else's opinion?
"‘Swing’ is an adjective or a verb, not a noun. All jazz musicians should swing. There is no such thing as a ’swing band’ in music.”-
Artie Shaw

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