Artie Shaw dead?

Message

GemZombie · #31 Post by **GemZombie** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:11 pm

Charleston Charlie wrote:
a bunch of reactionary blabber
Say what? I never used that term. Not even when drunk. Something VERY fishy is going on here. Where the hell did that come from? I have reread my posts and I can't find that anywhere. I can't even recall using 'blabber'.

And where have I said that anyone here was unintitled to an opinion? If I disagree with anyone's opinion and they reply that they're being slammed, then I suggest that said individuals are in need of growing thicker skins- either that, or keep their opinions to themselves. I am perfectly comfortable with disagreeing and being disagreed with.

And it's my opinion that the statement that Artie and Glenn Miller produced similar music is ridiculous.

"reactionary blabber" I think was more of his take on your post than a direct quote. (It's a common and humorous way to sum up someones's post). I don't really think you read everybody's *full* opinion before you reacted, and I certainly don't think the Miller comparison/opinion is ridiculous. I think it's a completely valid statement.

Miller was extremely polished. Sometimes Shaw was too (by his own account, he was a perfectionist)... it's my opinion that sometimes that hurt the music in a similar way. If you like that sound, then obviously you wouldn't think so, but it doesn't make my opinion ridiculous. I love Shaw music, just not all of it.

Nate Dogg · #32 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:25 pm

I have accidentally misquoted people before and fixed the quote to be accurate. That is what I orginally thought happened in this case.

However,I think that unless he actually used the words " bunch of reactionary blabber", there is no reason to use the quotation code. You could have wrote:

"Charleston Charlie, that is a bunch of reactionary blabber"

instead of the confusing

GuruReuben wrote:
Charleston Charlie wrote:a bunch of reactionary blabber

That is my take

Nathan

Mr Awesomer · #33 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:26 pm

Charleston Charlie wrote:And since when is it considered reactionary to disagree with someone else's opinion?

Jimmie Lunceford wrote:'Taint what ya do tis the way that cha do it.

With a little common sense and a touch of comprehension, my use the quote tag is neither confusing nor out-of-line.

Charleston Charlie · #34 Post by **Charleston Charlie** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:33 pm

However,I think that unless he actually used the words " bunch of reactionary blabber", there is no reason to use the quotation code. You could have wrote:

"Charleston Charlie, that is a bunch of reactionary blabber"

Bingo.

GemZombie · #35 Post by **GemZombie** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:34 pm

At the risk of sounding like a "minion"... I'd have to agree with Reuben. I've used the same type of "quote", and have had it used on me. It's neither confusing, nor offensive.

BigBandDJay · #36 Post by **BigBandDJay** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:37 pm

Horsepoop. Check out 'Live at The Palladium' and 'It Goes To Your Feet'. Plenty of danceable stuff there. Also "Blues In The Night".

Yes, he played ballads, and everybody back in the day danced to ballads, and that makes it danceable. Basie, Ellington, and Webb all played ballads too. I don't hear anyone saying that these cats don't play dance music. Just because contemporary Lindy hoppers dislike ballads, that doesn't make a ballad undanceable.

Well actually Charlie, as a DJ if I were to play ballads at dance clubs or dance events, the majority of dancers would rather hear something else. I didn't mean that ballads were undanceable in the 30's, 40's, or 50's...i'm not a fool. But thanks for the lesson on who played ballads back then.

In fact, I believe he called jitterbugs "morons".

That was a misquote; a reporter wrote that out of context. The truth is, he did a show in NYC and some fans mobbed his car and scratched the shit out of it. It was a brand new Packard convertible. Completely understandable reaction, IMO. If somebody scratched my brand new car, then Moron would be a kind and gentle word for that person.

Well I read it from the AP, Reuters, and CNN.com and it all quoted Shaw as saying he thought jitterbugs were morons. Regardless, it's plain to see he disliked dancers just dancing to his music and not "listening to it". The whole industry left a bad taste in his mouth. Fine by me, I still enjoy listening and dancing to his music.

AlekseyKosygin · #37 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:21 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:
AlekseyKosygin wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote: Lots of people wonder the same thing too.
Damn really? What kind of idiot would think that Artie Shaw isn't danceable?
The quote was about Artie Shaw saying that he didn't understand why people wanted to dance to his music. So I assume you are calling him an idiot. But i'm glad to see you are free with your opinions and think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot.

I have other quotes from Artie Shaw that say otherwise...there is no disputing the fact that the guy was a codger and on the record he's contradicted himself numerous times...however going to the facts is that he did lead a DANCE orchestra, several in fact... his bands played dances and they put out DANCE music...whether he liked what he was doing or not is a whole other story, that was the industry he was in, Artie's 1939 band with Buddy Rich in my opinion is THE hardest swinging big band ever recorded...

The other reason I responded to your post is because I was still really sad out about his passing and I didn't think your post was suitable for a 'obituary' thread as it were...

so yea, sorry about that...

idiot,

Mr Awesomer · #38 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:45 am

AlekseyKosygin wrote:The other reason I responded to your post is because I was still really sad out about his passing and I didn't think your post was suitable for a 'obituary' thread as it were...

Well if Artie had it his way, a suitable obit would be "Go Away."

GemZombie · #39 Post by **GemZombie** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:58 am

<hair split>
you mean epitaph... not obituatry.
</hair split>

mousethief · #40 Post by **mousethief** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:16 am

Ah, so Artie Shaw hated everyone. Big deal. At least he wasn't molesting children.

Swing DJing has gone beyond playing standards because it is less of a social activity for young singles and more about the dancing now. Ballads are out of favor, generally.

Kalman

CafeSavoy · #41 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:13 am

AlekseyKosygin wrote: The other reason I responded to your post is because I was still really sad out about his passing and I didn't think your post was suitable for a 'obituary' thread as it were...

so yea, sorry about that...

idiot,

i was also pointing out that you should be careful with your use of invective.
there is no problem with vigorous debate but please keep it adult.

rayned

mousethief · #42 Post by **mousethief** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:59 am

C'mon Rayned, that first post of yours was bait if there ever was bait. I'm not taking a side here, just saying that you can't leave bait out and not expect the biggest, hungriest fish not to bite.

Kalman

CafeSavoy · #43 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:06 pm

mousethief wrote:C'mon Rayned, that first post of yours was bait if there ever was bait. I'm not taking a side here, just saying that you can't leave bait out and not expect the biggest, hungriest fish not to bite.

Kalman

did i resort to invective? is that necessary for disagreements over perspective to sink into name calling? i find it ironic that people who will dismiss decades of basie's post-war work out of hand will take umbrage over merely pointing out that not every Artie Shaw song is danceable.

And then i pointed out that various viewpoints on Shaw existed over time and not just in the present. Granted the author of the quotation was strongly opinionated, but so are some of the posters on this board. And we can't really evaluate the validity of the critique since Billie Holiday only recorded one track with Shaw. And we do know she quit because she didn't want to tour the south and not over artistic differences. As far as i can tell, Shaw, to his credit, treated her very well.

mousethief · #44 Post by **mousethief** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:25 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:
mousethief wrote:"I could never understand why people wanted to dance to my music," he once said.
Lots of people wonder the same thing too.

Rayned - this was your post. The one that started the whole thing (mind you, prolly would have started somewhere else but that's moot here)

Were you harsh or cruel? No.
Is this laying out bait? Yes.

Kalman

CafeSavoy · #45 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:53 pm

mousethief wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:
mousethief wrote:"I could never understand why people wanted to dance to my music," he once said.
Lots of people wonder the same thing too.
Rayned - this was your post. The one that started the whole thing (mind you, prolly would have started somewhere else but that's moot here)

Were you harsh or cruel? No.
Is this laying out bait? Yes.

Kalman

Is that a false statement? Did I say Shaw was undanceable? Does pointing out that some people don't like Shaw make you an idiot? Does not liking Shaw make you an idiot? Is the only reply to people who don't agree with you is to call them idiots?