Which Complete Basie on Decca is the best?

Message

Jonas · #1 Post by **Jonas** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 6:31 am

Hi folks!

This is my first post. I've been a lurker for some time, but have done some good cd investments with the help of your advice, and dj from time to time at our local venue. Since I'm a newbie, I thought I'd start out with a question to the seasoned veterans. Forgive me if the topic has been debated before, but I haven't been able to spot it anywhere here.

I'm looking at finally buying the complete Basie recordings on Decca, this treasure of swing from which I've heard so many great songs played, but can't decide which set to get. As far as I can see from www.allmusic.com, there are two sets on which the track listings are identical (one of them though with the alternates at the end of each disc).

The sets are:
1. The Complete Decca Recordings (GRP, released 1992, cat. no. 611, producer Orrin Keepnews)
2. Complete American Decca Recordings (Definitive, released 2001, cat. no. 11173, producer unknown)

My question is the following:

Which one of these, or any other, should I buy, price aside, if I want the best sound quality?

Thanks in advance
Jonas, Uppsala, Sweden

Yakov · #2 Post by **Yakov** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:30 am

haven't heard both... i doubt anyone here has, which would explain the paucity of replies... but i have heard the Basie RCA Victor set from the same European label, and it was excellent... the American version of the Decca recordings is fab... you probably can't go wrong, just get the cheaper one

Campus Five · #3 Post by **Campus Five** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:18 am

Check out the 4-disc proper box, no alternates but everything you really need.

Swifty · #4 Post by **Swifty** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:30 pm

FYI there's about 2 1/2 discs of overlap between the Proper set and the America's #1 Band set.

I vaguely remember covering this in the #1 Band thread but feel too lazy to look it up.

Yakov · #5 Post by **Yakov** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:21 pm

no way d00d!
i'm generally in favor of proper sets / best of's as opposed to complete sets, when it comes to most artists... but Basie is not "most artists"!

You NEED the Complete Decca (Decca or Disconforme/Definitive), Complete RCA Victor (Disconforme/Definitive), and Complete Columbia (Disconforme/Definitive)

(I guess you'd then need the Kansas City 5-6-7 CD [Classics] and then track down the odd jam sessions and V-Discs, wherever they might be hiding. I dunno about pre-Decca Basie, did he appear with Benny Moten or something...?)

Nearly every track Basie laid down during his old testament years (1937-49) is solid gold for swing dancing and listening.

you'll find a ton of bangin' tracks that are left out of the Proper set. there are only a few songs with alternate take (i.e. filler). Trust me dude...

(last i was there, Desolation Row had the official Complete Decca release for $24... check the other thread for contact info)

I wish TIM would do a box set of this material... would help me a lot...

Anyway, we've covered this territory in more general Basie threads; the man asked a simple question that we're still not answering...

trev · #6 Post by **trev** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:30 pm

I read a review somewhere (it migth have been on Amazon) that believed that the newer set had better sound quality.

The newer set is also much nicer-looking than the brown-covered original.

GemZombie · #7 Post by **GemZombie** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:57 am

Ya, the basie and ellingtons sets on Proper are good, but I'd say they aren't the best proper sets, and other boxes beat those particular two (especially the ellington set).

That said, the proper basie set is the best value. I prefer the Decca set a bit more for the actual music, however. Disc 1 and 2 of the proper set are the best

Jonas · #8 Post by **Jonas** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:13 am

Thank you guys for all the good suggestions. When I started this topic some threee months ago I didn't have a clue what discs to get. It evolved from dealing only with the Decca sides to including all Basie Old Testament essentials (in side topics). I finally ended up buying all the Basie complete sets from Definitive (http://www.jazzmessengers.com has got really good prices, especially for a Swede like me, with great conversion rates right now).

The "Complete Original American Decca Recordings [Definitive #11173, 2000]" was what I started this topic for, and I wasn't disappointed. The price was HALF of what I would have had to pay if I'd ordered the GRP original from the States (its hard to find in my neighbourhood).

The "Complete Original American RCA Victor Recordings [Definitive #11175, 2000]" was a great addition too. I love the slow version of "Swingin' the Blues"!

I already had "America's #1 Band!" [Columbia #519872, 2003], with clarity that will raise the hairs on my back in delight when listening to "Oh, Lady Be Good" at home, but with pops and crackles that might not satisfy the dancers at my scene, so the "Complete 1936-1941 Columbia Recordings" [Definitive #11208, 2001] and "Complete 1941-1951 Columbia Recordings" [Definitive #11209, 2001] was a nice addition, with a different remastering approach that gives a bit more muffled sound but a lot less of the surface sounds. Also I got a more complete set of songs, live recordings aside.

Yes, and about the TIM box you were asking for Yakov, they have actually put one out under the name "Portrait" [Past Perfect #204540, 2000] (it says TIM on the box, one of my friends has it). It seems to cover the two Definitive Columbia boxes (except for the years 1936-1938), the RCA Victor box, but not the Decca box. The first song is "Miss Thing, Pts 1 & 2", from 1939, the last one "Beaver Junction", from 1951, and the 179 songs seem too suggest an incomplete set of recordings inbetween, since I have around 220 songs on my Definitive sets, Decca box and 1936-1938 Columbia aside. Maybe TIM/Past Perfect should have put out two 10CD-boxes, like they did for Fats Waller, to have the space for the Decca sides, early Columbia, 5, 6 & 7-sessions, and live sides and air checks too. (Oh, and I love my Bechet and Goodman "Portrait" 10CD-boxes from TIM/Past Perfect, cheap as hell here in Sweden, with decent sound quality and good liner notes too. My money is burnin' in my pockets, maybe I should get the Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young boxes as well.)

I'm still looking for that "Kansas City 5, 6 and 7" from Classics...

Thank you once again for all the good advice,
Jonas

Yakov · #9 Post by **Yakov** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:46 am

cool!

Campus Five · #10 Post by **Campus Five** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:27 am

Nobody answered the actual question!
Which Decca set is better?
They both have exactly the same songs.
They will both have complete personnel listings / session dates, etc.
I don't need another Basie bio in liner note form.
I suppose the real question is which one has better sound quality?

Yakov - wow was I wrong about only needing the Proper Box for Basie!
I ended up ordering both complete columbias and the american victor sets from half.com, and just hadn't decided which decca set to get. My favorite by far is the 1st Columbia set. 1940 was such a great year for the Basie band, and even when Lester left in 1941, they still sounded so good. Hawk sitting in with the band is also very cool.

GemZombie · #11 Post by **GemZombie** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:47 am

If you have the Money, buy the Decca Set. It's rare I'd choose anything over a Proper set, but in this case the music is a bit better on the Decca set.

AlekseyKosygin · #12 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:35 pm

If there was only ONE Basie I'd get it would hands down be the Complete Decca Recordings Box Set...it definetly KILLS the America's Number #1 Band Box Set on Columbia on sheer quality of music...(I have both)...

Campus Five · #13 Post by **Campus Five** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:25 pm

No!! Which "Complete Decca" - the one on GRP/Decca or on Definative?

Yakov · #14 Post by **Yakov** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:28 pm

speaking of money, you can actually save money by getting the official decca box from this site: http://www.swingdjs.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1003 $15 includes shipping

CafeSavoy · #15 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:59 pm

Campus Five wrote:No!! Which "Complete Decca" - the one on GRP/Decca or on Definative?

I think they have the same material, the only question is sound quality. I'm not if anyone has both [Lawrence?]. I have some of the Definitive stuff so i'm guessing the sound is similar. But i think Decca has better liner notes. Unless you hear that Definitive has better sound, i'd get the Decca.