Small can of worms--What is swing?

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Kyle · #16 Post by **Kyle** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:18 pm

Why would a group of black dancers from Harlem honor a white pilot from Michigan by naming a dance after him just because?

I don't like that article, it doesn't really prove anything, or really make a strong claim to anything. Too nebulous for my taste.

I prefer the newspaper story as it gives a little bit more "beef" to the story rather than Shorty just naming it that for the hell of it.

Personally, i think there is someone named Lindy somewhere along the line in Harlem that the dance was named after. Some ultra hot chick that shorty was in love with, or was dancing with at the time. who knows

mousethief · #17 Post by **mousethief** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 2:47 pm

Kyle wrote:Why would a group of black dancers from Harlem honor a white pilot from Michigan by naming a dance after him just because?

Well, even though he was a freaking Nazi, CL was still the hero of the day. At this stage, we're still in the shadow of cakewalking, of minstrel shows and of conking one's hair to look white. Negro magazines were actively selling skin whitening creams in the back ads.

At any rate, I like the story, factual or not.

Kalman

Lawrence · #18 Post by **Lawrence** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:00 pm

Kyle wrote:Why would a group of black dancers from Harlem honor a white pilot from Michigan by naming a dance after him just because?

No less a Nazi from Michigan.

Personally, i think there is someone named Lindy somewhere along the line in Harlem that the dance was named after. Some ultra hot chick that shorty was in love with, or was dancing with at the time. who knows

Given Lindburgh's Nazi tendencies, this is one form of revisionist history I would support. But I suspect we will just be left with the unfortunate irony.

djstarr · #19 Post by **djstarr** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:40 pm

BryanC wrote:Where lindy hop came from, its name, etc, I'm sure is another larger can of worms that this thread isn't really prepared for...

Hey Brenda, did you get any answer over the weekend?

no forgot to ask - Buddy is the historian of the group I think. If he's back from Chicago tomorrow I will try to remember to ask him.

djstarr · #20 Post by **djstarr** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:33 pm

BryanC wrote:Where lindy hop came from, its name, etc, I'm sure is another larger can of worms that this thread isn't really prepared for...

Hey Brenda, did you get any answer over the weekend?

Ok, I got a chance to talk with Buddy Catlett last week. He had a blast in Chicago and said I'm in for a treat in NYC, especially getting to listen to Irene Reid.

I asked him if he knew how the term "swing" came to be used --- he said pretty much what he said last time, the terms came about by trying to describe what the dancers are doing -- i.e. "jump" blues. He also said that the term swing wasn't really used popularly until the white bands in the late 30's started to get very popular --- he felt it took at least a generation for a term to gain any longevity.

I then asked him whether he thought "lindy hop" was really from Charles Lindbergh -- he looks at me and says "Honey, I'm not that old".... ha ha ha ha. He didn't really know, but he came up with another candidate - there is a deli called Lindy's that everybody used to go to --- maybe the term came from "hopping over to Lindy's"...

We then started talking about Count Basie and he talked a lot about how Count Basie learned from Fats Waller and James P. Johnson and how they were the real deal.

CafeSavoy · #21 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:25 pm

djstarr wrote:
We then started talking about Count Basie and he talked a lot about how Count Basie learned from Fats Waller and James P. Johnson and how they were the real deal.

Interesting he said that. I remember when we were arguing whether Count Basie was legitimately NYC or not, i had argued that since Basie roots is stride he as nyc as anyone.

AlekseyKosygin · #22 Post by **AlekseyKosygin** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:28 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:
djstarr wrote:
We then started talking about Count Basie and he talked a lot about how Count Basie learned from Fats Waller and James P. Johnson and how they were the real deal.
Interesting he said that. I remember when we were arguing whether Count Basie was legitimately NYC or not, i had argued that since Basie roots is stride he as nyc as anyone.

Basie was legitimately NJ actually and so were most of the stride masters...The Brute, The Lion and The Lamb included...Fats was his teacher whereas as James P. was Fats's teacher...Stride itself, is something that the east coast can call its own, Once Bill Basie started spending more time out of this geographic area did his sound and style really change...

mousethief · #23 Post by **mousethief** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:47 am

Just doing some research - the trans-atlantic flight was in 1927. Doesn't that pre-date what is commonly accepted as Lindy? I think ol' Snowden was bowing smoke up some reporter's ass or it's just a name like any other thing people do, like the Hucklebuck.

Kalman

falty411 · #24 Post by **falty411** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 4:06 pm

mousethief wrote:Just doing some research - the trans-atlantic flight was in 1927. Doesn't that pre-date what is commonly accepted as Lindy? I think ol' Snowden was bowing smoke up some reporter's ass or it's just a name like any other thing people do, like the Hucklebuck.

Kalman

Nope, 27-28 is around the year the term lindy hop started being used for a dance that was originally called the collegiate. The step in the collegiate that helped give way to lindy hop was called the breakaway.

If you watch the 1928 clip After Seben, with savoy dancers Shorty George Snowden, Leroy Stretch Jones and eccentric dancer James Barton, they are doing the lindy hop, probably the earliest form of it caught on film (except James Barton, who is just doing an eccentric dance in blackface).

But the whole story of how it got its name doesnt ever really add up, i think its one of those legends that whether or not it is true, should be true cause it makes for a good story.

mousethief · #25 Post by **mousethief** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:35 pm

Thanks!

Kalman

trev · #26 Post by **trev** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 7:37 pm

Just stumbled across a CD of rare recordings called: "Go Harlem: New York Columbia Recordings, Vol. 1 "

http://www.amazon.com/.../002-3495758-3 ... ce&s=music

Interestingly, the second track is titled "Lindbergh Hop" by Te Roy Williams (1927), which to me reinforces the idea that the term "Lindy Hop" is in fact referring to Charles Lindbergh.

CafeSavoy · #27 Post by **CafeSavoy** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:05 pm

trev wrote:Just stumbled across a CD of rare recordings called: "Go Harlem: New York Columbia Recordings, Vol. 1 "

http://www.amazon.com/.../002-3495758-3 ... ce&s=music

Interestingly, the second track is titled "Lindbergh Hop" by Te Roy Williams (1927), which to me reinforces the idea that the term "Lindy Hop" is in fact referring to Charles Lindbergh.

thanks for the link. i don't even know why we're having this discussion as if blacks in harlem lived in a hole in the world and would not have been impacted by the major events of their time.