Too much groove for me, lately

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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paul13
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#46 Post by paul13 » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:50 pm

i want to dj at the lindy 411 event !!!!! just kidding. i know better than that.

i wanted to add that i also think mathew is a great guy and although i didn't say anything bad about him, i didn't say anything good either and i don't want to seem that i'm taking a side here.

mathew has brought me some great tunes over the time i've known him and sometimes they work for dancing and sometimes they don't. that's life and believe me, it's happened to me lots of times. i do like his input and everyone elses.

whatever. i love everyone and i'm just glad we're all friends. i'm gonna go hug a tree now.

peace,
paul mallett

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gatorgal
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#47 Post by gatorgal » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:54 pm

paul13 wrote:
whatever. i love everyone and i'm just glad we're all friends. i'm gonna go hug a tree now.

peace,
paul mallett
This is why I so dig you!!! I love your sets at Zendah and look forward to seeing you soon... maybe for the Steven and Virginie weekend.

Tina 8)
"I'm here to kick a little DJ a$$!"
~ Foreman on That 70s Show

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djstarr
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#48 Post by djstarr » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:25 pm

Nice to see all the Tampa DJs come out of lurk mode --- Hep Jen told me the Tampa and North Florida scene is really growing.......one thing a bunch of controversial posts says to me is that there are a lot of people in the scene with passion - that's awesome.

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Ron
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#49 Post by Ron » Wed Apr 14, 2004 4:33 pm

That's a really good way to look at it, Brenda, thank you for that perspective!

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Abdel
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#50 Post by Abdel » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:51 pm

Well, I am not one to lurk. I just don't spend a lot time reading boards because of threads like this one, but I am always up for a good discussion. Well, I would not say that the scene in Tampa is growing. I believe that I've seen Hepjen once in Tampa. She spends most of her time in the Orlando area as far I know. One way to find out is to come down and visit. Oh, and, by the way, Ron when are you coming down here to do a little djing for us?

As far as Matthew is concerned, well the good thing about this thread is that I made sure that many people in Tampa found out about it. How else is the music supposed to be more inspiring for him if they were not reading what he had to say. I have yet to hear back from Matthew, but he is more than welcome to help me dj a dance in Orlando on April 23rd. In fact, I might be able to get him some solo dj gigs here too to see what he can do. How about it Matthew? You won't even have to dance to the music.

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djstarr
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#51 Post by djstarr » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:06 am

Abdel wrote:One way to find out is to come down and visit.
Yes, I agree --- I am definitely guilty about merging all of North Florida into one big scene --- is there a lot of cross-pollination between Tampa and Orlando? There is a lot of travel between Seattle, Portland and Vancouver BC and I would say we definitely influence each others scenes quite a bit...

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Matthew
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#52 Post by Matthew » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:32 am

I've reread the entire thread, and, in the interest of having a cohesive, vibrant scene, and thus in the interest of clarification, I have some points to make. As I wrote in the disclaimer, I'm presenting many personal opinions here.

First, I still believe and agree with everything that I've written in this thread. Some of the constructive comments have provided new ways in which to think about the local situation. I find that very helpful.

I started this thread in order to seek advice, not make personal attacks. The DJs who have responded here DJ at many of the local swing events, but not at all of them. I think that may be one of the sticking points in this discussion. My opinions are refering to the entirety of the swing events in this area, not just to those DJed by the respondents. I am very grateful for the work these DJs do.

Despite my last post, there have still been some personal attacks made within this thread. To further clarify... When I refer to personal attacks, I am refering to attacks made on a person, as opposed to attacks made on an opinion or an idea. To stray from the topic of discussion, in order to attack a participant's character (sometimes as a means to "prove" his or her ideas to be invalid), is one of the fundamental fallacies of logic. I am interested in discussing ideas and opinions. I am not interested in making personal attacks. As I wrote before, I think that such attacks are disgusting, and should be removed. I hope that this clarification will end such attacks within this thread.

Again, when I started this thread, I had no intention of creating discord. I was then, and am now, seeking advice.

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Abdel
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#53 Post by Abdel » Thu Apr 15, 2004 4:47 am

Orlando really doesn't influence our scene at all. We are completely different and have been for years. We like it that way though, it's all good.

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Greg Avakian
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#54 Post by Greg Avakian » Thu Apr 15, 2004 7:22 am

Addict wrote:I see 180 BPM as a pretty telling speed ... IMO somebody who can't consistantly execute clean swingouts at 180 doesn't have solid fundemental skills.
I agree about the 180 barrier, but I don't agree about the skills.

Last night I had my class doing swingouts at 205 and they were having a hard time keeping up. At 184 they were fine.

Big deal.

There is a big difference betwwen "can't" and "don't want to".

I admit that I can't sustain a whole dance doing triples at 200BPM, but that's mostly because I have no interest in doing so. One can't seriously say "People are too lazy" or "they are wimps".

Do any of us actually believe that with a little practice anyone (with 2 functioning legs) -even me- couldn't dance faster?

Some people don't want to.

People have differing opinions about music too, don't they?

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yedancer
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#55 Post by yedancer » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:30 am

Greg Avakian wrote: Do any of us actually believe that with a little practice anyone (with 2 functioning legs) -even me- couldn't dance faster?

Some people don't want to.

People have differing opinions about music too, don't they?
I think the question is not "do they want to?" but "WHY do they not want to?" There's no question that some people don't want to dance fast. But the reasoning is that they don't want to because of their environment, skill level, history as a dancers, etc.

And no matter what you say, some people are going to think that you don't want to dance fast because you can't do it well, even if that's only a subconcious choice.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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yedancer
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#56 Post by yedancer » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:33 am

This is going to be a bad anaolgy, but I think people who don't dance fast but claim to be able to learn "if they want to" are like people who smoke or drink and say they can stop "if they want to."
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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#57 Post by Nate Dogg » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:12 am

yedancer wrote:
Greg Avakian wrote: Do any of us actually believe that with a little practice anyone (with 2 functioning legs) -even me- couldn't dance faster?

Some people don't want to.

People have differing opinions about music too, don't they?
I think the question is not "do they want to?" but "WHY do they not want to?" There's no question that some people don't want to dance fast. But the reasoning is that they don't want to because of their environment, skill level, history as a dancers, etc.

And no matter what you say, some people are going to think that you don't want to dance fast because you can't do it well, even if that's only a subconcious choice.
Jeremy:

It is good to know that you have a better insight into why Greg or anybody else for that matter may not enjoy dancing to fast music as others do. Why take Greg's word for why he likes a particular dance style? He has those subconscious reasons that only somebody else can point out to him.

Some dancers may not enjoy dancing to fast music because of their skill level, others may not want to because they have more fun with slower tempos, and so on. There are as many answers to that question as there are dancers.

As you said, "some people are going think..." Luckily, Greg does what he wants to do, regardless of what such people think.

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#58 Post by mousethief » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:36 am

I just can't imagine a crowd sitting out because Count Basie was playing above 200 BPM or the folks in Cat's Corner "taking a breather" because Chick Webb wasn't going to slow down.

It's not a fundamental question of skill, although skill certainly plays a large role. Greg is right in saying that attitude is key; however, I've been to enough comps and own enough footage to say that a lot of people's attitudes suck. There are whole "swing" competitions where dancers maybe do one swingout - and I don't mean jive or steppin' either.

And many of these people are given celebrity status for their dance ability and how they're carrying on the traditions of lindy hop. I certainly don't want to dance all night at 200 BPM + but there should always be room for it. As a DJ, I want to satisfy the floor and challenge the floor from time to time. I don't do it because I think you should have to work for your $5 admission but because I don't want a group body of stagnant dancers. Even if I wanted to do an all-Basie tribute, I would still shake it up so it did not sound like one long boogie woogie song.

Kalman
"The cause of reform is hurt, not helped, when an activist makes an idiotic suggestion."

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LindyChef
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#59 Post by LindyChef » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:49 am

yedancer wrote:
Greg Avakian wrote: Do any of us actually believe that with a little practice anyone (with 2 functioning legs) -even me- couldn't dance faster?

Some people don't want to.

People have differing opinions about music too, don't they?
I think the question is not "do they want to?" but "WHY do they not want to?" There's no question that some people don't want to dance fast. But the reasoning is that they don't want to because of their environment, skill level, history as a dancers, etc.
Just to give you another perspective, it's more than just that kind of stuff. I lost half a lung to a birth defect and throughout my life I have had a difficult time keeping up with fast paced things. I always find myself winded at the end of a fast song and have to sit out the next couple ... I don't want to because I don't want to look around for an oxygen tank every time I do a fast dance. Hell, even dancing normally when I go to Denver is sometimes a challenge.

The ironies of ironies - I find myself more and more drawn to faster music nowadays ... I think the one I've been playing most in my car lately is Count Basie Big Band - Jumpin at the Woodside from the Montreux '77 album.
yedancer wrote:This is going to be a bad anaolgy, but I think people who don't dance fast but claim to be able to learn "if they want to" are like people who smoke or drink and say they can stop "if they want to."
And yes, it is a bad analogy because inherent in it, you don't believe what these people are saying at face value and there is a streak of elitism/cynicism in it.

A better analogy would be comparing it to learning how to be an artist. I think we could all agree that there is something inborn to being a Picasso, DaVinci, etc. But what about simply being a competent artist?

I think about this issue a lot because I am in culinary school because many people have this perception that fine cooking and baking is this art form, that chefs are also artists. And yes, to a degree chefs do need an artistic streak to make a gorgeous presentation, but it's nothing that can't be learned. You can be trained to recognize a good looking set of patterns on a plate, complimentary colors, breath-taking structures. You can be trained on how to pipe beautiful icing decorations for wedding cakes or to bake a beautiful brioche.

Anyone can be trained on how to do pretty much anything competently. To make them a master, a legend, that's something different ... not everybody's a Frankie Manning.

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#60 Post by Addict » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:16 am

Greg Avakian wrote:
Addict wrote:I see 180 BPM as a pretty telling speed ... IMO somebody who can't consistantly execute clean swingouts at 180 doesn't have solid fundemental skills.
I agree about the 180 barrier, but I don't agree about the skills.

Last night I had my class doing swingouts at 205 and they were having a hard time keeping up. At 184 they were fine.

Big deal.
What's your point? By what I said and what you said your class has skills. Congrats on teaching them that.
There is a big difference betwwen "can't" and "don't want to".
Did I say otherwise?
I admit that I can't sustain a whole dance doing triples at 200BPM, but that's mostly because I have no interest in doing so. One can't seriously say "People are too lazy" or "they are wimps".
No one is saying you have to do anything. But what I've found is that when people have developed the skill to bust out, they find it to be fun to do every once and a while. And I can say people are to lazy or people are wimps when they say things like 'oh I could never do that' or 'That's too much work'. If they were to say 'That's great but I don't want to do that' then you're right, I couldn't call that person a wimp or lazy. I also find that people who say 'I can dance fast when I want too' generally can't.
Do any of us actually believe that with a little practice anyone (with 2 functioning legs) -even me- couldn't dance faster?

Some people don't want to.

People have differing opinions about music too, don't they?
Yes, people that are physically able all can learn how to dance faster. I don't know anybody who has ever said differently. In fact I think its a rediculous statement. I'm just reminded of something a friend told me a couple years ago on observing the scene on a really busy night. He said he would never have gotten involved if the scene looked like that when he was just starting. Not because the skill level had declined, but because the room had no energy. Energy is not always determined by tempo, but tempo can sure as hell make a difference.

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