Too much groove for me, lately

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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Nando
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#16 Post by Nando » Wed Mar 24, 2004 2:06 pm

gatorgal wrote:The Grotto is one of the only places I know in the state that still gets a rockabilly crowd. Especially when Paul DJs. I'm sure the atmosphere is different when Abdel DJs, but through a quirk of fate, I've never been there when Abdel spins.

I personally don't mind the rockabilly folks at the music. It's so different than the norm that I appreciate the change. Especially since the dancers are super friendly.
I was there when Paul DJ'd. And I didn't mind the mix of rockabilly, except for the fact that the last hour was all rockabilly and novelty songs. No real swing, but still... very little groove.
GatorGal wrote:
Nandol wrote:I'd say SoFlex had a decent mix, but a lot more groovier music than I heard in Tampa.
It's funny that you and others have mentioned this since the one knock I heard as that all the DJs that weekend (myself included) sounded alike.

I didn't think so, but I'm too biased to make an opinion.

Tina 8)
I wasn't at SoFlex long enough to take notice of each DJ's individual similarities and differences. The note was more-so that the dances I were at had a decent mix of lindy and groove. Probably edging more toward groove than what Matthew thinks. I think he's just trying to instigate conversation by implying incorrect facts... something he does on Yehoodi too often.

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Matthew
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#17 Post by Matthew » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:36 pm

Nando wrote:I think he's just trying to instigate conversation by implying incorrect facts... something he does on Yehoodi too often.
That is completely the opposite of my intention here. I thought that the disclaimer made that clear:
Matthew wrote:[Disclaimer: This is a bit of a rant about something that's been bothering me lately. Contained herein is personal opinion. Also, sorry to bring this topic up again, but it's really been frustrating me.]
That being the case, I don't appreciate the suggestion regarding my original post.

----------------------------

Some of the things that you all have pointed out have made me reconsider our local music as a whole. The more I think about it, the more I think that the abundance of groove, especially slow groove, may be just part of the problem. The fact is, there's very little uptempo, original-era swing played in this area as a whole. Groove may be the closest thing that we usually get, and that may be part of the reason I'm so sick of it.

Roy, I've been in the Tampa Bay area for a relatively short time, so I'm not sure what they played several years ago. Some of the bands that play swing events now, especially those that play at Centro and Swing City, play more slow, groovy stuff than I'd like. I imagine that the ECS dancers feel the same way.

A couple from San Diego came to a Halloween dance here last year, and I remember him telling me that where they usually dance, they don't feel like they're doing lindy until the tempo gets above 225 BPM. We usually take it a bit slower here, so for most of the dancers, 225 would feel very fast.

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djstarr
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#18 Post by djstarr » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:00 pm

Matthew wrote:A couple from San Diego came to a Halloween dance here last year, and I remember him telling me that where they usually dance, they don't feel like they're doing lindy until the tempo gets above 225 BPM. We usually take it a bit slower here, so for most of the dancers, 225 would feel very fast.
That's funny! 225 is pretty fast; as an average dancer I love doing balboa at that speed; I can lindy to it but can't do more than one song in a row at that tempo!

I'm all about generalizations (i.e. this is IMHO), but even in a "fast" town like Seattle I think the sweet spot for lindy hop is more around 180 - 190; you won't get the whole floor doing lindy to "main stem" or "cottontail" for example, which are over 200.

However, the good dancers here, those in performance troupes, can rip it up consistently to stuff at 250 or higher.

If you are trying to get the tempos up Matthew, there is a bunch of great stuff early era around 160 - 180; some of my favorites are 'He Ain't Got Rhythm' off of Benny Goodman's Sing Sing Sing (160), and there is a bunch of great songs on Lunceford Special that vary from 140 - 200.

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yedancer
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#19 Post by yedancer » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:42 pm

I don't know who that was from San Diego, but they definitely aren't representative of dancers here.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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Greg Avakian
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#20 Post by Greg Avakian » Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:43 pm

Matthew wrote: A couple from San Diego came to a Halloween dance here last year, and I remember him telling me that where they usually dance, they don't feel like they're doing lindy until the tempo gets above 225 BPM. We usually take it a bit slower here, so for most of the dancers, 225 would feel very fast.
Most people have no idea what 225BPM is.

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Yakov
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#21 Post by Yakov » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:19 am

for some, 225 bpm is a speed;
for us, it's a lifestyle

p.s. shouldn't this thread be in Skillz?

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yedancer
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#22 Post by yedancer » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:56 pm

Greg Avakian wrote:Most people have no idea what 225BPM is.
Most dancers in our town are fairly familiar with BPM ranges. At least, I think they are.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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Ron
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#23 Post by Ron » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:59 pm

Yeah right, Jeremy! Why would the average dancer have any clue as to what BPM a particular song is? They might hear a fast song and think "too fast, I think I'll sit this one out", not "it's above 175, I think I'll sit this one out". Give me a break. I mean, do you think dancers run around with a little BPM computer in their pocket? Only DJs, teachers and competition types are anal enough to be able to quote BPMs.

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yedancer
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#24 Post by yedancer » Mon Apr 05, 2004 6:34 pm

You're right, Ron, I just randomly made up that opinion with no facts to back it up. Oh wait. I didn't.

The reason I said that is that I've talked to quite a few regular dancers who seem to be pretty familiar with the basic strata of BPM. Obviously not everyone is like that, but among the group of dancers who travel to other cities to dance, I would feel fairly confident that quite a few of them know the difference between 140 and 225.

Of course, I'm curious as to how you're so in tune to local dancers since you rarely DJ any more and rarely come out to dances. Hehe. Man I miss our little jabs.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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#25 Post by mousethief » Tue Apr 06, 2004 11:08 am

Fight! Fight!

In Dallas, dancers are pretty in tune with BPMs. You don't have to be able to quote them to ballpark a 200 BPM song.

Kalman
"The cause of reform is hurt, not helped, when an activist makes an idiotic suggestion."

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Ron
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#26 Post by Ron » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:37 pm

Ah, now you've gone from saying "most dancers" to "the dancers that travel to other cities..." which I think we can all agree isn't "most". And what I'm talking about is not noticing the difference between a 225 BPM song and a 140 BPM song. It's being able to articulate their preferences or guess the BPM of a song. Most can't and don't care. And they shouldn't. I rarely get someone coming up to me saying, "can you play a song in the 165 to 190 range?"

I'm surprised that you say you miss our little jabs, it can't be fun always losing. ;)

julius
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#27 Post by julius » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:41 pm

180 seems to be an unspoken cutoff for the mass of dancers at large. right about there (Blue Skies by Lavay Smith is about 180) the floor starts dumping dancers. it annoys me, because 180 is the MEDIAN for classic swing music. i don't recall anybody graphing the bpm and determining the average bpm of post-war jazz that we dance to, but i suspect it is lower.

i think 260 is too fast for the "average dancer" to aspire to, but i think people shouldn't bail when it hits 200-220 (One O'Clock Jump by Basie is about 190 and Bill's Bounce is about 220 if I recall correctly, and I'm probably not).

rant, rant, rant.

mousethief
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#28 Post by mousethief » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:11 pm

Yeah, it's very annoying because they are cutting themselves off a very large body of music simply because of tempo. Hell, I've heard people complain that "Flying Home" was too fast and it's not even 180.

Kalman
"The cause of reform is hurt, not helped, when an activist makes an idiotic suggestion."

Addict
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#29 Post by Addict » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:17 pm

I see 180 BPM as a pretty telling speed ... IMO somebody who can't consistantly execute clean swingouts at 180 doesn't have solid fundemental skills.

And I agree with Kalman. There is too much good music that doesn't get played enough because its 'too fast'

KevinSchaper
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#30 Post by KevinSchaper » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:44 pm

I agree with Julius, but sometimes I get really surprised too, I'll throw on something at 230 on a night where I seriously sometimes never go over 200, and half the people in the room are still dancing..

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