SwingDJs

I still can't see that at all. The G5 stuff, especially My Blue Heaven and Cross Your Heart are my definition of good 4-feel swing, because you can really hear that thumpin' bass drum on all 4 beats.

djstarr wrote:

Eyeball wrote:DJStarr uses a word with which counsel is not familiar; namely - "jank".

FWIW - I find the Webb version of DBTW rather clumsy and not too far removed from a voo-dee-oh-doh rinky tink 20s recording.

http://www.swingdjs.com/phpbb2/viewtopi ... light=jank

For historical reference. Any further discussion on the word please reply on the thread listed so we can keep our conversation "on topic". Thanks!

Not a single defination of the word "jank" in the entire thread AFAICS.

Not a single defination of the word "jank" in the entire thread AFAICS.

post 1, sentence 2:

Jank is the polar opposite of groove.

you may argue that you don't know what groove is, or that groove has not been defined in this context, but you can hardly deny that that's a definition right there.

edit: and, in an attempt to stay on topic: would muggsy's "sister kate" be jank or groove? or both? or neither?

lipi wrote:

Not a single defination of the word "jank" in the entire thread AFAICS.

post 1, sentence 2:

Jank is the polar opposite of groove.

you may argue that you don't know what groove is, or that groove has not been defined in this context, but you can hardly deny that that's a definition right there.

edit: and, in an attempt to stay on topic: would muggsy's "sister kate" be jank or groove? or both? or neither?

I'm sorry, but declaring something as the opposite of something else is not a definition, it is an interpretation.

This semantic bs is why people get annoyed. Get to the point without out being so damn snotty.

Like I said earlier, I though the term refered to earlier jazz styles which were more staccato and often in 2-feel. Pre-'34 ensemble stuff, like Henderson or Redmond or Duke, or Hot-jazz-y stuff like pre-40's Bechet. This would be in contrast to Old Testiment Basie Swing with a capitol S, or Groovy stuff.

Campus Five wrote:This semantic bs is why people get annoyed. Get to the point without out being so damn snotty.

Like I said earlier, I though the term refered to earlier jazz styles which were more staccato and often in 2-feel. Pre-'34 ensemble stuff, like Henderson or Redmond or Duke, or Hot-jazz-y stuff like pre-40's Bechet. This would be in contrast to Old Testiment Basie Swing with a capitol S, or Groovy stuff.

You have defined "snotty", Jonathan.

It is isn't semantics. Go into a court room with that, would you?

Just because you think you know what you mean does not mean someone else knows what you mean.

If no one defines the word, it's all in your head.

Congratulations you've won a tiny little battle over whether someone defined something. Can we get back to the topic. Thanks.

Also, you miss read my post. I was not caterogically defining the term, just throwing in what I thought it meant. I think there is some difference in the way people are using the term. If Brenda thinks that the AS&G5 is janky, then that's very different than I have used the term and heard it used. Let's talk about that instead.

Campus Five wrote:Congratulations you've won a tiny little battle over whether someone defined something. Can we get back to the topic. Thanks.

Also, you miss read my post. I was not caterogically defining the term, just throwing in what I thought it meant. I think there is some difference in the way people are using the term. If Brenda thinks that the AS&G5 is janky, then that's very different than I have used the term and heard it used. Let's talk about that instead.

Dude- It isnt about 'winning a battle'.

What you think it means is not what it may really mean to the person who first invoked it....or anyone else....and it took that long to get to that point?

I "miss read" your post? I'll go read it again tomorrow.

In closing - whatever.

djstarr wrote:I can always tell the jank level by how much kicking gets thrown in as variations to lindy hop swingouts.

ROTFL.

YES!!!

Eyeball wrote:If no one defines the word, it's all in your head.

1) That's not true. A language's words are words if more than one person can communicate an idea using them. Not 100% of people have to understand a word for it to be a word. Just more than one person. It only has to be in more than one person's head to be in, well, more than one person's (such as Jonathan's) head.

"Definitions" are very useful for maximizing the number of people who can understand particular words, but they're not the only real or legitimate way that more than one person can come to associate the same concept with the same word.



2) Brenda defined it in a way that's actually a lot more useful as a definition than anything musical that Jonathan has come up with so far (after all, the term originally applied to dancing and seems to have later applied to the music that inspired such dancing). You complained about the lack of a definition well after she posted hers. If the experience of watching the way swing dancers dance to music you're spinning isn't one you've had, maybe you should cut back how much you flood the boards with your advice about what to do and how to do it on swingdjs.com
(not to mention that if that's the case, maybe you should go out and get that experience so you'll be able to use the definition given instead of bitching that it's not a good enough definition)

[sobbs]gee thanks Kat....I'll just take my definition and go home[sniffle]. Just kdding, by the way I'll try to call you tonight to talk about your question from the other day.

so,
Are you using "janky" in a positive way to connote things that really feel right or really rock, regardless of style? I had heard it used to describe a particular style or feel. Also, I don't see kicky swingouts to G5's "My Blue Heaven", so I'm not seeing the connection.

Also, lets all just ignore the bickering - Cooper already sent me the obligatory F-you email.

Campus Five wrote:Are you using "janky" in a positive way to connote things that really feel right or really rock, regardless of style? I had heard it used to describe a particular style or feel. Also, I don't see kicky swingouts to G5's "My Blue Heaven", so I'm not seeing the connection.

so getting back to G5 - in Travis' post from 2004 he talks about G5 being janky; I'd be interested in hearing his take on this after 3 years. But for me I'm listening to G5 right now and I'll rate my own jank factor on these tracks:

Special Delivery Stomp: high jank -- thumpety thumpety
Summit Ridge Drive: medium
Cross my Heart: medium high -- chunka chunka chunka
When the Quails: medium low - accents but sublter baseline rhythm
My Blue Heaven: medium
Scuttlebutt: medium

Personally I put G5 in the lower spectrum of jank overall; Bechet and Webb are a lot higher in my ranking system. However, we were using this term to contrast relative music. Comparing any BG small groups or G5 to say Diana Krall is going to get high jank rating.

Anything with a good rhythm guitar/banjo etc. is high jank ranking - I'd put all the NO Jazz Vipers stuff at the high end.

I originally brought this term up to distinguish between Chick Webb's DBTW vs. Benny Goodman's version - Chick Webb wins the jank factor.

And I guess I'm interpreting jank as a sharpness in the rhythm - be it 2/4, rhythm guitar/banjo, lots of drum accents, etc.

Hope this helps!

That's closer to what I was thinking. On earlier jazz stuff the ensembles is often more staccato - comparing an Henderson or Webb tune vs. the Goodman version. Same thing with the 2/4 bass lines, etc. All more Janky to me.

The term "jank" is funny to me because I always thought of it as having a negative connotation.

I definitely understand the way dancers (at least around seattle) refer to it, but before I started dancing I always heard it used to describe something that was "bootleg", or generally just busted up and not in good condition.

I agree with jonathan, I dont see AS&G5 as too janky. I would offer Cats & the Fiddle as having a "janky" sound that inspires "janky" dancing.

Okay, funny that you mentioned Cats & the Fiddle. When I went looking for certain videos to illustrate recent dancing, it turns out the "janky" one I had in mind was to Cats & the Fiddle!

Okay, so maybe that's why that video's dancing looks so angular & kicky compared to 3-4 years ago.


Anyway, I was going to say that in my opinion, listening to more and more of this music over the past few years has changed the way almost all of the dancing at the top looks into something a lot jankier than it used to be.

Heh. It's a lot cleaner than it used to be, too, so please ignore that in the videos I'm going to link. For now, I'm just pointing out a change in what I think people would consider "jank" in dancing.

late 2006, mid-tempo
Lots of throwing or kicking the limbs out & bringing them back in in angular shapes
late 2002, fast tempo and 2002/2003?, medium-fast tempo
A rounder look. I'm still not sure if this is mostly because the dancing was sloppier with fewer deliberate lines at all, or if it's mostly because of a huge, competing-scene-wide difference in dance style. I think it's style, because the Silver Shadows & the Harlem Hot Shots seem to be perfectly capable of that rounder look when they want to dance it.

And if it's an overall difference in the dance style of top dancers (rather than a difference more directly related to dance quality), it really makes me wonder if it's related to the increasingly heavy emphasis on "janky" music that I noticed and heard people talking about in 2004 & 2005 (the pendulum seems to have swung back a little more into the swing era since 2006--my pet theory is that both trends in DJed music at competition-level events have had to do with the live music available in the home scenes of a lot of the DJs and dancers attending them).