SwingDJs

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2003 5:02 am**

main_stem wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:
Lawrence wrote: Using ?Lindy Hop? instead of ?Swing Dance? distinguishes ?us? from the Ballroom scene, not just the zoot-suit, neo-swing twits.
Ok, you like to call people Twits...but most of the people out today dancing started as a Twit....

I was one. LOL I actually started dancing because my friends had a band, Blue Plate Special, back in college. It was Chico, CA what else you gonna do. Strangely enough these are the same guys that gave me lots of Basie and Duke to listen to.

-Kevin

Thats my point....I would really like to destroy the attitude or ego of some Lindy Hoppers or groove dancers, thats party why the scene has gotten so dismal. We have to be much more open arms and willing to accept newbies or anyone that even looks our way.

It's kinda funny looking back on an interview I did with a dancer who was really good during the mid 1930's on the subject of Labels. She said they were just Jitterbugs, thats what they Labeled us even though The dance they did was the Lindy Hop, a few dancers called themselves Lindy Hoppers to make themselves seem better, but all in all they were just Jitterbugs as well, weather they liked it or not. I know it's not the same trip as what we are talking about here, but the ego is the simular...i know we feel superior tell other dancers we Lindy Hop, but the the rest of the world we are just swing dancers..

Chico rules, I spent many years up there hangin out in the late 80's and early 90's. skateboarding and music scene was hot, great bands came from there, there used to be a place called Juanita's, and it was good place to see big name bands up close. Glissade Snowboards are from there...as was a Band called the Mother Hips....kinda hippy stuff, but good friends that almost made it Big.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2003 4:41 pm**

SirScratchAlot wrote:Thats my point....I would really like to destroy the attitude or ego of some Lindy Hoppers or groove dancers, thats party why the scene has gotten so dismal. We have to be much more open arms and willing to accept newbies or anyone that even looks our way.

that's good to hear, especially since it seems that some want to drive
away some of those who already consider themselves lindy hoppers.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2003 5:12 pm**

SirScratchAlot wrote: Chico rules, I spent many years up there hangin out in the late 80's and early 90's. skateboarding and music scene was hot, great bands came from there, there used to be a place called Juanita's, and it was good place to see big name bands up close. Glissade Snowboards are from there...as was a Band called the Mother Hips....kinda hippy stuff, but good friends that almost made it Big.

Not to mention Juanitas was a good place to grab some cheap eats. I wonder if it's still there, things began to get very franchised when I left.
Lots of good bands too.

Posted: **Sun May 18, 2003 11:33 pm**

CafeSavoy wrote:that's good to hear, especially since it seems that some want to drive away some of those who already consider themselves lindy hoppers.

Drive away or simply re-label?

Why are these viewed as one in the same?

I've asked this question so many times and I've yet to hear a decent answer for it... if one is so into the innovation/evolution of a dance form, why does one so desperately want to cling to an old ass obsolete name?

So what's the big deal if I and others like me don't consider it Lindy Hop... and why would such a feeling on "our" part, an extreme minority of people I might add, even be remotely considered a force capable of driving people way?

This is all so silly on so many levels.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 12:45 am**

GuruReuben wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:that's good to hear, especially since it seems that some want to drive away some of those who already consider themselves lindy hoppers.
Drive away or simply re-label?

Why are these viewed as one in the same?

I've asked this question so many times and I've yet to hear a decent answer for it... if one is so into the innovation/evolution of a dance form, why does one so desperately want to cling to an old ass obsolete name?

So what's the big deal if I and others like me don't consider it Lindy Hop... and why would such a feeling on "our" part, an extreme minority of people I might add, even be remotely considered a force capable of driving people way?

This is all so silly on so many levels.

I don;t think it is one in the same at all. and the only re-labeling that is being done is by those that want to use the term Lindy Hop to cover anything under the sun that involves an 8 count pattern.

History has made it's bed, the once energetic dance called Lindy Hop evolved into new and exciting dances not once but many times as it was danced to new music and rhythms, if people want to tango or west coast swing or do modern dance and call it Lindy Hop it only makes them look uneducated to those that know and study dance history.

Educating socail dancers , Dj's and the intire world of dance as to the history of dance is not pushing anyone away , it's only bringing them together to understand the differences and the origins of dance. So that everyone can acually speak the language both in Body and mind and too then go forward advancing it into the future.

It does seem to me by reading the internet that the "groove" dancers do infact want to drive away those that dance the original form of Lindy Hop and the music that went along with it so that the new dance will not be bothered by those hyper active dancers. It's just history re-peating it's self, although some seem to ignore it, or worse purposfully follow it.

I know for a fact the real Lindy Hoppers are dance whores and will dance to everything under the sun and at any tempo, although their prefrences might be Big Band or traditional jazz, the save their complaints for the internet to bitch and whine that alot of the common music played does not reflect the original essense of the dance. and I admit of being one of those.

and this is where the clash is, on the internet more then anywhere else. Is he who screams the loudest, no , it's those that have an impact on the scene around them that will make the differences. so take heed in the direction you want to take the dance, picture it is what you want to see and then shape your journey forward. I know for a fact it will not matter which direction the social scene goes, it will have no bearing on the history of the dance. No one can take away whats been done, some can enjoy that , others will ignore it and some will borrow from it, but it won't change it.

The labels of todays social dancers are not taught in history classes , their opinions of labels will not have any bearing on the future of the dance in anyway, the preservation of documenting history is not done on the social floor. History has been documented the labels are already there, put their by generations and generations of dancers and there is nothing a young social dancer today can do to change it.

like quote goes " Those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it..."

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 1:00 am**

CafeSavoy wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:Thats my point....I would really like to destroy the attitude or ego of some Lindy Hoppers or groove dancers, thats party why the scene has gotten so dismal. We have to be much more open arms and willing to accept newbies or anyone that even looks our way.
that's good to hear, especially since it seems that some want to drive
away some of those who already consider themselves lindy hoppers.

yes, I don't beleive in seprating the "twits" from the scene...they pay at the door like everyone else...

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 9:05 am**

GuruReuben wrote: Drive away or simply re-label?

that's the typical hollywood response.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 9:49 am**

CafeSavoy wrote:hollywood

HAHAHAHAHAHAH
I think I just peed my pants.
Oh Rayned how I love thee.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 10:20 am**

GuruReuben wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:hollywood
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
I think I just peed my pants.
Oh Rayned how I love thee.

too bad trager isn't in this thread too

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 11:59 am**

Lawrence wrote:lot]
Lawrence wrote: and if the swing-out can change its rhythmic patterns to fit whatever rhythmic accent you want to make while dancing to the point where its nothing like a basic swing-out, then I don’t see the harm or dishonesty in including the basic bal, charleston, or shag step in “Lindy Hop.”

the rhythm in these dances is all the same so
I agree 100% as long as your still capturing that same essence, check out the harvest Moon ball footage, you'll see additions such as those mentioned however they are turned into Lindy Hop, not Lindy Hop turned into them, there is a difference, in energy and style.

For all the parsing of what I wrote, that was my main point: its the same rhythm interpreted differently, so it's not intellectually dishonest. And I have no reservations about choosing our (or my) own marketing term so as to avoid negatives associations by the disinterested majority that I want to become interested. It is all dancing to "Swing" music, but I want to avoid the negative associations with "Swing Dance," so I use "Lindy Hop" as the over-arching term.

Yes, we're all twits and dorks alike, but we don't have to let everyone KNOW we are right off the bat!!! Just like how I don't tell the story about that restraining order to my first dates; I wait until AT LEAST the third or fourth date.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 12:03 pm**

SirScratchAlot wrote: I don;t think it is one in the same at all. and the only re-labeling that is being done is by those that want to use the term Lindy Hop to cover anything under the sun that involves an 8 count pattern...

...that manifests (puts into motion) a syncopated Swing Rhythm.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 12:31 pm**

SirScratchAlot wrote: It does seem to me by reading the internet that the "groove" dancers do infact want to drive away those that dance the original form of Lindy Hop and the music that went along with it so that the new dance will not be bothered by those hyper active dancers. It's just history re-peating it's self, although some seem to ignore it, or worse purposfully follow it.

I know for a fact the real Lindy Hoppers are dance whores and will dance to everything under the sun and at any tempo, although their prefrences might be Big Band or traditional jazz, the save their complaints for the internet to bitch and whine that alot of the common music played does not reflect the original essense of the dance.

HAHA! That was rad.

And well put.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 1:15 pm**

SirScratchAlot wrote:
I know for a fact the real Lindy Hoppers are dance whores and their ... prefrences ... [is] to bitch and whine...

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 2:55 pm**

SirScratchAlot wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:Thats my point....I would really like to destroy the attitude or ego of some Lindy Hoppers or groove dancers, thats party why the scene has gotten so dismal. We have to be much more open arms and willing to accept newbies or anyone that even looks our way.
that's good to hear, especially since it seems that some want to drive
away some of those who already consider themselves lindy hoppers.
yes, I don't beleive in seprating the "twits" from the scene...they pay at the door like everyone else...

I completely agree, even though you seem to be ripping on my point of distinguishing "us" from Neo Swing Geeks/twits.

But, as for marketing, I would much rather target-market non-twits who attract rather than repel women than have a bunch of those extreme-dorks who creep the hell out of all the women I want to come to my dances, leaving us with just the dumb, standardless, oblivious women. (Softball, guys, go ahead and hit it...)

What your perception of who is doing the alienating ("Groover" or "Originalers") also seems to completely depend on what camp you fall in, not any objective assessment, as it always has. It sometimes sounds as if "Original Hollywooders" refuse to try to understand why I have mine and perhaps allow me to share my inspiration, as opposed to just browbeating me into joining them because they say so and they're so "originally" cool. As you and I have always said, Peter, vive la difference! Nobody is going to be able to browbeat the other side out of their preferences.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2003 3:10 pm**

There is nothing "original" or "cool" about "Hollywooders." haha

SwingDJs

Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison