Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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Which band do you play more often when you DJ?

Barbara Morrison
19
53%
Mora's Modern Rhythmists
11
31%
Both about equally
1
3%
I don't play either of them
5
14%
 
Total votes: 36

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SirScratchAlot
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#121 Post by SirScratchAlot » Fri May 23, 2003 9:13 pm

JesseMiner wrote:These dancers are all passionate about the Lindy Hop but have obviously taken it in different directions.
They sure have...they came either from west coast swing or the modern swing era...and have taken it in their own directions. But also , as great as they are, none have honestly studied the academic aspects of history to the depth only a few historians have, which is understandable because of the fact they would not of had the chance to become such great dancers if they would have spent all their time studying history.
JesseMiner wrote:
The dance became more relaxed and laid-back, but it still retained an intense swinging feeling reflecting the raw essense of Lindy Hop.

When you say Laid back? to what are you refering or what years and footage?
In some cases during the 1950's it did retain an essence related to the Lindy Hop...however depending on the year your talking about it , it simply wasn't called Lindy Hop by the normal population of dancers. Not by the Savoy Dancers, not by the LA dancers not by any of these dancers.
Ofcource dancers Like Al Minns continued dancing the Lindy Hop, and upon arriving and dancing along side younger dancers he used the phrase The Lindy Hop, and although these younger dancers appeared to be doing a simular dance to the same music, they used a different term, most commonly "swing" . I guess we could get into this more in person to explain specifics...
JesseMiner wrote: If you understand where I'm coming from, then you can understand why it is slightly insulting and offensive being constantly told that the dance I am passionate about is not Lindy Hop and the music I am incredibly passionate about is not suited for Lindy Hop.
I guess I understand that your coming from a person that has been influenced primary modern dancers and Musicians? and that who have built yourself up to beleive in what they beleive. I'm not sure, but thats kinda how it reads.

Until recently, there has been no critical aclaim said on the internet because of the fact that this new style of dancing wasn;t as big and had yet grown away from it's original form. but now it is evident by a growing amount of dancers this new style is only getting larger < which is cool if I might add> and the fact they want to continue using the term Lindy Hop can only last so long the further and further it grows into this new and fun form of dance.

at the same time I find it insulting that a few modern social dancers that have only dance a couple years want to reach back into history and pull out a label once used and so ignorantly apply it to what they do.

I'm not saying the intire scene of social dancing today, but it has been growing more and more away from it's original form. where to draw the line? in clearly in the grey area of now by a majority depending on the region,event or place.

I don't want to evolution to stop, I want to see it grow more then ever, I welcome more types of music more styles of dance, as I will be enjoying them all. But I can't see the continued use of dance terms from the 20's or 30's being any benifit to documenting our history when there is hardly any resemblence.


JesseMiner wrote: Barbara Morrison's music SCREAMS Lindy Hop to me, making my entire body want to swing hard.
I never siad it didn;t swing, nor did I say some of the music cannot be Lindy Hopper too, I did say the majority of it makes me do what I would call "swing dancing" meaning it's a combination of all eras of dance put together into one, primarily based off Improvision.

JesseMiner wrote: I can continue to understand and appreciate more about others' cultural histories,
others? how about ours?
JesseMiner wrote: but please don't ask me to give up or devalue mine just because you are passionate about yours
devalue? why would you say devalue? and what is mine? this is the american history of vernacular dance, I'm passionate about preserving our history so that we may pass it along into the future for generations to come. The fact that some people want to ignore our history to glorify their social dancing is not only ignorant but selfish and a disservice to our history. I'm also passionate about dancing and have an understanding of the the fact that there are in fact grey area's, grey area's I will always respect until it gets pushed into another realm.

As a social dancer these area's are much broader and terms are used very loosely, as an academic the terms are specific with an understanding to those that want to document OUR history , so that the future will have a grasp of our growth.
JesseMiner wrote: I'm not trying to claim that everything under the sun in Lindy Hop,
well thats refreshing, but unfortunatly many people do use the term that way, and those are the people I wish to educate. Posting and talking about it is only one way to get people to know, and understand that there is a specific dance called Lindy Hop, that came from Harlem USA. In person ofcourse is the best way, where I am able to share sources , as in interveiws by those that acually lived and danced through these era's and as well as film footage of the dancing it's self. I would start by directing people to view Margret BAtiuchok's interview of George Llyod (Savoy Ballroom dancer and Harvest Moon Ball winner) which she has availible for sale. where he defines more clearly the difference between the Lindy Hop of those like Frank Manning and the swing dancing he amd his generation does, which followed Frankies generation.

I realy do not invent terms and lables, I just share the information that I have uncovered and share it to all that I can so that they can understand our history and how it became to be.


JesseMiner wrote: but I think most of us in this discussion have a lot more in common than we care to admit.
I haven't relabled anyones dance, other then it's all just Swing, BARBARA was the one thats has been calling the crowd Lindy Groovers....and I sorta agree that it's fitting.
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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#122 Post by SirScratchAlot » Fri May 23, 2003 9:47 pm

mark0tz wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:If I'm wrong, you use the term "Lindy Hop" as an all incompassing term, just as I would use the term "swing dancing" as the all incompassing label?
Yes, but "Swing Dancing" usually includes Jitterbug/East Coast Swing, too -- which has become distinct enough in its footwork, basic, and mechanics to warrant a different name. It also includes Bal, Bal-Swing, Collegiate Shag, (and so on...) Lindy Hop done to slower music is still Lindy Hop because of its mechanics and timing. I do think, though, that the fire burns the hottest for this dance at faster tempos to Swing Era music.
I don;t know how the studio's in your area have come to teach dances such as East coast swing, Jitterbug, west coast swing , Lindy Hop, colligiate shag etc...and it doesn;t matter really, they all fall under the blanket term of "swing dancing".

all I know is when I'm dancing socaily, I combine everything I know from these dances, and thus I am swing dancing.

now You put on a hot number, and I will default to more specific forms of swing dance.

On slower music today,it's too the point where I'd say Alot of the good groove dancers look like West coast swing dancers both in mechanices and moves,that have been taught to dance more relaxed...Doug Silton comes to mind in this discription, an awesome dancer, that has combined carolina shag , west coast swing however at times retains the relaxed posture of Lindy Hop...
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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#123 Post by SirScratchAlot » Fri May 23, 2003 10:11 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:
GuruReuben wrote: just as Lindy Hoppers took on a new name when they moved away from Charleston.
It strikes me that the naming was a little more arbitrary than that.. and that the dance that was being done in '27 (not that I've seen a clip from '27, but '29 at least) under the name Lindy Hop only shares so much with what was being done in '41.
well, your right, The Charleston produced a step that became it's own dance called "the Break away" as it was called on both coast. The breakaway was being done as early as 1925 in Harlem and as early as around 28 in Los Angeles. the acually term Lindy Hop has a few stories behind it, I beleive the more realistic one came from the Savoy and not Shorty George at RockLand Palace. one of the owners of the Savoy (Charles Bucahanan) described the dancers to a reporter whom where hopping on the spring floor.
Their are a couple reasons I don't give alot of weight to the Shorty story, one is the fact that Snowden got the name off a Newspaper, that newpaper "heading" apparently never exsisted. and second , Snowden was dancing in a Marathon, so I don't beleive he would have exhausted himself doing anything tiring. and Lastly , The Savoy's floor was extremely bouncy and springy, countless interviews of those early years describe the pack floor of dancers bouncing and hopping like never seen before in any Ballroom. It is much more beleivable to see a floor of these dancers doing the "break away" and explain they are doing a new dance, to help promote the Ballroom, Charles Bucahanon was a genius at.

also in even more interviews not to confuse this posting board of DJ's anymore then it is, that there was a difference between the Lindberg hop and the Lindy Hop. unfortuantly there are no visual accounts of these, but one can image the subtle differences which where most likely only used by the better of dancers...

By 41, the music had drastically changed, enough that dancers such as Dean Collins defined what he was doing as just "the Lindy" which was not only a tamed down version of the Lindy Hop he had been doing back east, but one that fit the music of it's time.

just food for thought...
Last edited by SirScratchAlot on Tue May 27, 2003 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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#124 Post by SirScratchAlot » Sat May 24, 2003 1:58 am

JesseMiner wrote:
Just as you've intensely studied the roots of our dance's history in the 30s/40s by talking with and understanding dancers who were around then, it's also important to study and understand more recent roots of our rich cultural dance.
recent roots? of our rich cultural dance? this could is an interesting topic in it's self. who shall go for first? :D

and why would this be important to know??? I guess you could pick any year as a starting point so I would have a better Idea of what your talking about. maybe even start a new thread so we all could follow it better.

I think this board needs to discuss this, so that everyone could have a better understanding of where we came from and where we are going.

As DJ's, I beleive we are looked upon to atleast understand these differences , and this board being a source for serious information is a great place to host such a valuable topic.
JesseMiner wrote: I'm sure many people on this discussion group have seriously studied Lindy Hop for years and years. Depending on where we grew up, we may have vastly different experiences.
Yes, but how does ones dancing ability make them any more historically knowledgeble?
And if "many" people on this discussion group are so knowlegeble how come nobody has put forth any resonable response.

Like I said, a new name? time will do that on it's own, I just enjoy the dancing in all it's forms. I call what I see with a resonable amount judgement knowing there is no clear cut line. But using the extremes it is obvious to any reasoble person there is a difference.

I think a very important task at hand is to use terms that are not derogatory, Like wiggly or whatever, I would prefer those inclined to specialize in this modern style of dance to be proud of what they do.
I think Barbara's usage of the term "Lindy Groovin or Lindy Groovers" is pretty cool, I mean what better person to go down in our history as her to promote the music and dance so many feel inclined to swing to?

to be honest, I think its a great term, not that it will nessesarily stick only time can tell , but most dancers today seem to know what groove dancing describes and the general differences between it and Lindy Hop, while the word Lindy in front of the word groove, gives a nod to the respected dance for which it partly evolved from.
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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#125 Post by GemZombie » Sat May 24, 2003 12:29 pm

djstarr wrote: Ignoring the issue of overplayed - do you prefer one over the other?
Hard to ignore. I'm not into either as a dance preference, and I really haven't heard much Barbara Morrison to make a good judgement. Decent music on the whole though. It'd be unfair of me to judge one over the other without giving both a fair shake.

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#126 Post by yedancer » Tue May 27, 2003 12:17 pm

SirScratchAlot wrote: . . . appeared to be doing a simular dance to the same music . . .
On a different note, Peter, I see you use the word "simular" in a lot of your posts. I think you mean to use the word "similar" not "simular." Similar means "related in appearance or nature; alike though not identical." Simular means "simulated; sham."
-Jeremy

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#127 Post by Ron » Tue May 27, 2003 12:23 pm

When reading Peter's postings you have to do a bit of interpreting... ;)

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#128 Post by yedancer » Tue May 27, 2003 12:50 pm

Well, in the context "simular" could work.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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#129 Post by GemZombie » Tue May 27, 2003 12:59 pm

I'm quite sure it was a typo... Peter tends to make his fair share of them.

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#130 Post by Mr Awesomer » Tue May 27, 2003 2:45 pm

GemZombie wrote:I'm quite sure it was a typo... Peter tends to make his fair share of them.
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#131 Post by SirScratchAlot » Tue May 27, 2003 10:57 pm

GemZombie wrote:I'm quite sure it was a typo... Peter tends to make his fair share of them.
yea, bad habit, I rarely spell check...you think posts are bad you should try reading what I write when on A.I.M......
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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