Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

Moderators: Mr Awesomer, JesseMiner, CafeSavoy

Which band do you play more often when you DJ?

Barbara Morrison
19
53%
Mora's Modern Rhythmists
11
31%
Both about equally
1
3%
I don't play either of them
5
14%
 
Total votes: 36

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CafeSavoy
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#31 Post by CafeSavoy » Tue Feb 18, 2003 2:27 am

GemZombie wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote: must be tough having to determining the sub-genre of song before knowing whether you can dance to it.
Guess when I look back on it, it does sound that way. It's not so. Thanks ever-so-much for pointing that out for me, it's spiffy of you to do so.

When discussing, I can analyze like anyone else. When listening/dancing, I know what I like and what I don't, and what makes me want to dance, and what doesn't. It has nothing to do with time/era/style... just what I feel.
true true. analysis is fun and it is different from the visceral experience of
music. the only problem with analytical frameworks is that sometimes
they limit your experience as much as they enhance your understanding.
i sure that everyone who collects lots of music has had the experience
when listening with an agenda (danceable, lindyable, etc.) of overlooking
songs that they rediscover later when listening more casually.

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#32 Post by GemZombie » Tue Feb 18, 2003 12:19 pm

CafeSavoy wrote: true true. analysis is fun and it is different from the visceral experience of
music. the only problem with analytical frameworks is that sometimes
they limit your experience as much as they enhance your understanding.
i sure that everyone who collects lots of music has had the experience
when listening with an agenda (danceable, lindyable, etc.) of overlooking
songs that they rediscover later when listening more casually.
absolutely.

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#33 Post by lindyholic » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:06 am

I don't have any Barbara Morrison stuff myself but I have heard it and it's just not my taste of music, when I DJ, I always ask myself "would I dance to this?". If the answer is no then I won't play it, I like playing what I would like to dance to, because people can get a varrying of tastes from a various amount of DJs, thus, I DJ Mora a LOT more often as I don't play Morrison. I mean, yeah, there's even some Mora stuff I don't DJ, but there's a lot of it that I do because I enjoy it so much (especially when there are a lot of newer dancers in a night, they need to REALLY be able to hear the baseline and always seem to have trouble finding it in the older music).

Harrison
www.lindyhopper.ca, Canada's Swing Site.

scratchy

#34 Post by scratchy » Sun Apr 13, 2003 6:12 am

comparing these two instituations is like comparing Ella's Band during the 30's and Ella during the 50's. (for the most part).

sure we can draw comparisons , but really whats the point, other then the analizing of each artist and then comparing what goes over in what scene?

Obviously Live , either would most likely go over in any part of the country with huge applause.

But I regress, Barbara is her own self, her sound. which is Popular, although not publically mainstream , it is within her genre of music.

Dean has his sound but he is bringing to light Music and style from the past. Unlike most bands he focuses on an era of music which Billy Holiday called "Harlem's swing era" , which was never "main stream" , it wasn't then and it certainly isn't now. Dean jumps around selecting songs and music that would be fun to do "live" , sometimes digging up a song that was never recorded to full capacity due to thge Limitations of african American bands, or sometimes recording an arrangement that was never even recorded. ( I have my own issues with this) .

Barbara VS Dean is like Vocalist VS player (both are musicians) Both can get me going but dancing to Vocalist is a bit harder, for I truely feel the need to watch a vocalist, where as a Player(specifically Dean's) expects you to dance so he can counter your movement of dance. I know I read into this aspect alot more then some, But when Barbara is pouring it out, I feel a respect issue comes into to play for me not to dance but rather smile and watch ....atleast sometimes.

Speaking of Live vs recording. Barbara changes somewhat, In Sweden she played alot of tempos and really had the place seriously "Lindy Hopping" with a capitol LH, where as in Pasadena and in SAC she played much more Mellow and had the dancers doing more of a groove/west coast swing feeling which shows me her mood does come into play when seeing her live.

I love em both.

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#35 Post by Big Mama Rockstar » Tue May 13, 2003 1:26 pm

interesting enough I have the 9:20 special cd simply fromorederingit. I loved her before i saw her live.. i love her more now. but we have a lot of that style of music here locally. so djing with mora is a little off. However i did manage to find a little gem in the used cd section at the Record Exchange. don't have a clue how the hell it got here to Boise but it did.

Mora's- Calling all Freaks with Leonard Reed. So I have a few for my wednesday line up I'll try out.


but really DAVE-- did you leave it here? j/k


tanya
"Mush damn you MUSH!" " oh no it's the Balboa NAZI!"

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Re: Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison

#36 Post by SirScratchAlot » Thu May 15, 2003 5:20 am

the reason I play Mora more, is because I tend to DJ lindy Hop events.... :D
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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Re: Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison

#37 Post by Big Mama Rockstar » Thu May 15, 2003 9:40 am

SirScratchAlot wrote:the reason I play Mora more, is because I tend to DJ lindy Hop events.... :D
BAH!
"Mush damn you MUSH!" " oh no it's the Balboa NAZI!"

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Re: Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison

#38 Post by SirScratchAlot » Fri May 16, 2003 4:24 am

Big Mama Rockstar wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:the reason I play Mora more, is because I tend to DJ lindy Hop events.... :D
BAH!
mating call for a sheep? hahaha Baaaaahhhhhhh bahhhhhhh
\\\"Jazz Musicians have dance in them, and Jazz dancers have music in them, or Jazz doesn''''t happen.\\\" Sidney Bechet

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#39 Post by GemZombie » Fri May 16, 2003 9:26 am

I agree with Peter on this one.

You can Swing to Barbara, but can you Lindy Hop to most of it? :)

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Ron
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#40 Post by Ron » Fri May 16, 2003 10:14 am

When are you guys going to stop with the "its not Lindy hop" stuff? I can do 3 swingouts and a circle to Barbara Morrison just fine, thank you. How come you persist with such silly statements? Do you really think by telling people they aren't doing Lindy hop that somehow you are going to convert more dancers to classic music? Personally, I think you'll just piss them off.

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#41 Post by KevinSchaper » Fri May 16, 2003 11:48 am

Ron wrote:When are you guys going to stop with the "its not Lindy hop" stuff? I can do 3 swingouts and a circle to Barbara Morrison just fine, thank you. How come you persist with such silly statements? Do you really think by telling people they aren't doing Lindy hop that somehow you are going to convert more dancers to classic music? Personally, I think you'll just piss them off.
I think it's healthy - I mean, not the being mean about it part, but the distinction.. I never got why some dances have these uber subtle differences that make them entirely different, like bal and single-shag, but lindy has this massive range that includes everything done by somebody who's first dance class was a lindy hop class.

Why not move towards the broader term swing dance?

I mean, it lets preservationist preserve, and modernists innovate, and we all get to be swing dancers together.

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Re: Mora's Modern Rhythmists versus Barbara Morrison

#42 Post by Big Mama Rockstar » Fri May 16, 2003 11:53 am

SirScratchAlot wrote:
Big Mama Rockstar wrote:
SirScratchAlot wrote:the reason I play Mora more, is because I tend to DJ lindy Hop events.... :D
BAH!
mating call for a sheep? hahaha Baaaaahhhhhhh bahhhhhhh


BaaaaAAaaaa there happy... < walks away with her sheep in tow>

t-
"Mush damn you MUSH!" " oh no it's the Balboa NAZI!"

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Lawrence
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#43 Post by Lawrence » Fri May 16, 2003 1:33 pm

Ron wrote:When are you guys going to stop with the "its not Lindy hop" stuff? I can do 3 swingouts and a circle to Barbara Morrison just fine, thank you. How come you persist with such silly statements? Do you really think by telling people they aren't doing Lindy hop that somehow you are going to convert more dancers to classic music? Personally, I think you'll just piss them off.
I agree completely, Ron, but wasn't that the sort of stuff you were trying to provoke by starting this thread in the first place? :wink:

My original response to this thread when it started was that, if it went anywhere, it was certainly going to digress into yet another Hollywood vs. Savoy debate (or the modern incarnation of it: "Original" vs. "Groove" Swing), which is not only boring (redundant) but also inclined to elicit comments from people on either side who are so blinded by their own styles that they cannot see the value of the contrary styles/positions.

It should not come as any surprise to most of the people on this list that there are two polar groups of Lindy Hoppers. Always have been since the revival began, and perhaps always will be: those who prefer frenetic, fast movement but who cannot "get" the groove of slower music; and those who dig mostly slower, "groovier," bass-laden (read: emotionally-rich) music but who do not have the style or efficient movement that is capable to keep up with fast music. And Vive la difference! I'm definitely more in the latter camp, but those in either camp who unequivocally bash the other side (good-natured teasing aside) and can't see the merits or reasons why so many people are drawn to it are just plainly ignorant. (It does seem as if more of that intentional ignornace lies on the "Original music" side, but that might reflect my own stance than any objective assessment.)

That's why I appreciated Rueben's call to play better "original" music "when playing that token fast song." (Even though the tone was a bit too cocky--no surprise :lol: .) It got me to think outside the box of my tiny little preferences, which has improved/revived my appreciation in a lot of music I had ignored while I developed my personal, more "groove-oriented" interests.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

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#44 Post by Lawrence » Fri May 16, 2003 2:11 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:I never got why some dances have these uber subtle differences that make them entirely different, like bal and single-shag, but lindy has this massive range that includes everything done by somebody who's first dance class was a lindy hop class.

Why not move towards the broader term swing dance?
This is way off the thread and even outside of a Swing DJ list topic, but there are good reasons why I use “Lindy Hop” as the generic term, not “Swing Dance.” I understand why people have begun to use “Swing Dance,” but here’s why I very purposefully do not.

First, marketing. Doing so distinguishes "us" from the Neo Swing, zoot-suit "Swing-twits" that most people outside of the scene irreversibly, categorically, and negatively associate with "Swing Dance." Ryan Francois inspired me to do so long ago to distinguish "us" from the modern-day jitterbuggers (Swing-twits) who threaten to kill the dance by diluting its beauty, form, and diversity, just like the "original" Jitterbuggers did in the 40s and 50s. The term “swing dance” has a negative connotation, even for me, to the point that even I would feel embarrassed to tell people that I travel across the country to “swing dance,” but not to “Lindy Hop.” As an instructor, it is also easier to get “normal,” mainstream people to learn to do something called “Lindy,” but very difficult to market “Swing” to mainstream people now that the fad has passed.

“Swing dance” as taught by Ballroom studios also developed its own connotation through Ballroom dance classes to refer to a dance that differs tremendously from the Lindy Hop we do. Using “Lindy Hop” instead of “Swing Dance” distinguishes “us” from the Ballroom scene, not just the zoot-suit, neo-swing twits.

Second, it is not intellectually dishonest to do so. “Lindy Hop” is not limited to just swing-out, circle, and swing out from closed done to the 1,2,3&4,5,6,7&8 rhythmic pattern. It is a diverse enough dance to not only include other improvisational movement, but also other rhythmic patterns such as Charleston, Bal and Shag. Where do you draw the line between more advanced “Bal” or “Shag” moves and “Lindy Hop” moves? If even simple barrel-rolls or sugar-pushes are part of Lindy Hop (as well as Salsa, West Coast, etc), and if the swing-out can change its rhythmic patterns to fit whatever rhythmic accent you want to make while dancing to the point where its nothing like a basic swing-out, then I don’t see the harm or dishonesty in including the basic bal, charleston, or shag step in “Lindy Hop.” Moreover, the "Charleston" that "we" do to Swing music differs enough from the "original" Charleston dance that I consider "our" Charleston (Lindy-charleston) to more honestly be a subset of Lindy Hop, not the actual, separate dance done to choppy, stacato jazz of the 1920s.

Third, (and least persuasively) I believe that the term "Lindy Hop" predated "Swing Dance." If anything, Swing Dance as we know it (6-count East Coast Swing) evolved from Lindy Hop. (I could be mistaken about this point).
Lawrence Page
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#45 Post by Ron » Fri May 16, 2003 2:26 pm

Good stuff, Lawrence.

Incidentally, last night, when this Lindyhop DJ played Lindyhop music for Lindyhop dancers last night at our local Lindyhop venue in San Diego called The Firehouse, I played two Barbara Morrison songs and one Mora's song. The people Lindyhopping looked, to my poor uneducated, non-classic eyes, to be doing the same Lindyhop moves to both artists. Of course, a bunch of people were also Balboa-ing (Balbing? Balling?) to Moras as well. More people Lindyhopped to Barbara. So I'd say, "preserve Lindyhop--play Barbara Morrison". ;)

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