ECS/Lindy/WCS - Bridging the Gap

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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mousethief
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#76 Post by mousethief » Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:56 pm

Lawrence wrote: As for defining groove swing, I've done it several times and received the usual flames from the "to define is to limit" and "it's all swing" crowd. Not worth it right now.
You of all people should know that no one opinion is going to be bulletproof, unless Frankie Manning starts posting from the library.

Since you cannot or will not define why groove music is better for new dancers or why it has more energy - other than sweat, which is nasty - maybe you could post some examples of songs that have worked with newbie dancers?

Kalman

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Mr Awesomer
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#77 Post by Mr Awesomer » Sat Dec 20, 2003 1:06 pm

Nate Dogg wrote:I doubt the Lance would say that the success of Lindy Groove was blind stinking luck.
That time I was talking about venues in general, not LindyGroove. :lol:
Reuben Brown
Southern California

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yedancer
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#78 Post by yedancer » Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:00 pm

Lawrence wrote:As for defining groove swing, I've done it several times and received the usual flames from the "to define is to limit" and "it's all swing" crowd.
I don't get it. Are you saying that I personally am a crowd, or are you just accusing me of flaming you? Either way, I wouldn't consider a differing opinion a flame. I happen to have a pretty broad definition of "groove." I don't feel like having a formulaic definition of what it is, but I do believe that it is a unique type of music and dance.

Or maybe I'm way off base and you aren't referring to me at all, even though you quoted my signature in the above statement.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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#79 Post by Nate Dogg » Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:06 pm

yedancer wrote:
Lawrence wrote:As for defining groove swing, I've done it several times and received the usual flames from the "to define is to limit" and "it's all swing" crowd.
I don't get it. Are you saying that I personally am a crowd, or are you just accusing me of flaming you? Either way, I wouldn't consider a differing opinion a flame. I happen to have a pretty broad definition of "groove." I don't feel like having a formulaic definition of what it is, but I do believe that it is a unique type of music and dance.

Or maybe I'm way off base and you aren't referring to me at all, even though you quoted my signature in the above statement.
He is referring to past threads, battles, etc...

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yedancer
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#80 Post by yedancer » Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:05 pm

Nate Dogg wrote:He is referring to past threads, battles, etc...
Um, thanks. Apparently you missed the layers of light sarcasm in my post.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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#81 Post by CafeSavoy » Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:24 pm

yedancer wrote: True. But what I do not believe is that "groove" swing is good "crossover" music. I do not believe it will attract new people, or make people want to learn Lindy Hop.
What sort of music do you think will attract new people and make them want to learn lindy hop? And why do you think that music is more attractive? Is it based on personal preference or on some investigation?

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#82 Post by CafeSavoy » Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:31 pm

mousethief wrote:
As much as I love Basie, much of his later stuff sounds like the Tonight Show Band, which doesn't do anything for anybody dancewise.

Kalman
You really think New Testament Basie sounds like the Tonight Show Band?
All 30 years of it?

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#83 Post by mousethief » Sun Dec 21, 2003 2:52 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:
mousethief wrote:
As much as I love Basie, much of his later stuff sounds like the Tonight Show Band, which doesn't do anything for anybody dancewise.

Kalman
You really think New Testament Basie sounds like the Tonight Show Band?
All 30 years of it?
In some cases, certainly. I have scads of new Basie material and some of it I just don't like. The Tonight Show reference was just an easy metaphor.

Kalman

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CafeSavoy
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#84 Post by CafeSavoy » Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:01 pm

mousethief wrote:
In some cases, certainly. I have scads of new Basie material and some of it I just don't like. The Tonight Show reference was just an easy metaphor.

Kalman
I agree that there is much Basie material that doesn't move me. But that can be said for most artists, and more especially for artists that have a large volume of work. But if you're going to define an artist by the stuff you don't like, very few artists will have passing grade.

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#85 Post by mousethief » Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:27 pm

Basie is my number one pick for any dance, Old or New or Atomic. I find that I enjoy older over newer but that might not always manifest itself in my sets.

Kalman

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Lawrence
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#86 Post by Lawrence » Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:22 am

julius wrote:Yes, yes, I too sweat buckets no matter what the song is. But I make three assumptions regarding the "what gets newbies hooked" question.

1) dancing to slower music often focuses energy inwards, not out. and the only reason i say "often" instead of "always" is because I saw Ogden and Amanda in Blues at ALHC 2001.
2) Newbies love the outwards energy, the flash, the trash.
3) low-fidelity recordings are a turnoff

Given these assumptions, low-energy and/or slower tempo music are not ideal for attracting newbies. Ideally you want hi-fi, high-energy, fast music. Does that describe a genre of music we know? Oh yeah, neo.
We are perhaps both overgeneralizing and lumping all "newbies" into the same category and thus making equally legitimate but seemingly-contradictory observations. Our observations also both seem to reflect the sort of newbies we would like to see enter the scene: yours would like high-energy fast music, whereas mine would like music you could sink you teeth into and doesn't fly by too fast to enjoy.

I understand your point about high-energy music attracting people, but most of those people would have been roped in through the Neo Swing craze six years ago if high-energy music was what they wanted. There is a significant crowd that wants exactly the opposite, and really enjoys hearing accessible swing music that shatters that high-energy Jump Jive myths.

Its not that they want soft, low-energy "Chris Connor" or "Miles Davis" swing that, yes, does sometimes only put you to sleep, but that they enjoy the "Gene Harris" groove stuff (e.g., Harris' version of "Don't Get Around Much Anymore"). Rod Stewart's "Having a Party" off his Unplugged disc is another (albeit surprising) good example: with a rich, deep, hard-grooving swing. For those who went to the Austin Exchange, the Texas Trumpets (Sunday Night) is another good example.
Lawrence Page
Austin Lindy Hop
http://www.AustinLindy.com

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wheato
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#87 Post by wheato » Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:35 pm

Call me undecided, but I don’t see where musical style selection is an either/or decision. For me, the key has to be quality and variety.

Like some of you, I also have to cater to a broad cross-section of dancers, including Lindy hoppers, ECS types, blues fans, Balboa fanatics and occasional WCS dancers. When I spin (D-Town in Atlanta), I’m trying to weave through a variety of styles during the night, from classic to “groove” to blues to modern, with occasional R&R and R&B and hip-hop/funk tossed in at appropriate times for change of pace. Not so many jazz combo tunes that it puts some to sleep, nor so much early swing that it wears people out or keeps slow hoppers off the floor for too long, but a balanced mix. That way, everyone gets some of what they want and get to experiment with the other tunes, or at least take a break with friends.

I think each mode and subgenre of the music we play has its own unique appeal and energy. So I try to identify and choose the best artists, and the best recordings by those artists. Not the same 40-50 tunes every week, but a quality of variety -- old and new, fast and slow, classic and combo, all meshed in a flowing program. That’s why I pay close attention (and offer thanks) to all of you who post lists out there, this in addition to listening on the web, visiting the local library and used CD stores, and raiding granddad’s old vinyl collection. You never know where the quality will turn up.

The DJ from KC will have to craft his own particular style while paying attention to what the KC dancers want and giving them the quality tunes while tossing out the tripe. That’s part of the challenge and the fun!

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#88 Post by funkyfreak » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:22 pm

Lawrence wrote:yours would like high-energy fast music, whereas mine would like music you could sink you teeth into and doesn't fly by too fast to enjoy.

There is a significant crowd that wants exactly the opposite, and really enjoys hearing accessible swing music...
Italics mine. Baiting yours.

-FF

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Lawrence
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#89 Post by Lawrence » Mon Dec 22, 2003 6:57 pm

Lawrence wrote:We are perhaps both overgeneralizing and lumping all "newbies" into the same category and thus making equally legitimate but seemingly-contradictory observations.
Baiting???
Lawrence Page
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#90 Post by yedancer » Mon Dec 22, 2003 7:55 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:
yedancer wrote: True. But what I do not believe is that "groove" swing is good "crossover" music. I do not believe it will attract new people, or make people want to learn Lindy Hop.
What sort of music do you think will attract new people and make them want to learn lindy hop? And why do you think that music is more attractive? Is it based on personal preference or on some investigation?
I think that faster, high-energy music is more attractive to newbies. This is based on personal observation over the past year or so.
-Jeremy

It's easy to sit there and say you'd like to have more money. And I guess that's what I like about it. It's easy. Just sitting there, rocking back and forth, wanting that money.

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