ECS/Lindy/WCS - Bridging the Gap

Message

Roy · #31 Post by **Roy** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:21 am

Nate Dogg wrote:
CafeSavoy wrote:
Roy wrote:Please, ella's version of Bill Bailey is not 130, it's more like 160.
Which version do you have? Mine is about 130.
Ditto, I checked the track last night. My BPM measurement was much closer to what Rayned said, 130-135.

So, either we have different versions or I was to quick to admit to putting the wrong BPM out there.

Nathan

Hmmm, when I get home I'll have to go count it now.

Mr Awesomer · #32 Post by **Mr Awesomer** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:41 am

Greg Avakian wrote:how do you explain the sucess of Lindy Groove?

Accessibility/Location
Beginner friendly
Timing (Thursday Nights)
No competition

yedancer · #33 Post by **yedancer** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 11:45 am

Greg Avakian wrote:how do you explain the sucess of Lindy Groove?

With exactly the same argument I used above. It's only been around a couple years, so obviously it took advantage of an existing trend that was already gaining momentum.

I don't know much about the east coast scene from personal experience. But I do know that 5 or 6 years ago or more Lindy Hop was brought back en masse thanks to the high-energy neo swing bands. At least, that's what it seems like. It was only after the dance had begun to gain popularity that large groups of people began doing it to consistently slower music. The groove scene grew out of the old high energy neo swing scene.

At least, that's the way it was in San Diego. It could have happened totally different in other cities. Anybody care to prove so?

arcecat · #34 Post by **arcecat** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:44 pm

Hi all, I'm new here.
I learned ECS in KC and over the summer started lindy.
Now that I've read all these posts in this thread, I don't
think fast lindy music will help people cross over.
I think it is more of actually going out and teaching
people lindy when they come to a dance. That way
they don't go home bored and dissapointed.
I used to hate music that you couldn't east coast to.
Now that I can lindy I enjoy the slower songs.

Toon Town Dave · #35 Post by **Toon Town Dave** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:18 am

In our remote and isolated scene, neo-swing was the popular music for Lindy when I started. My first significant exposure to "groove" and even classic swing was at Beantown 2001. It was definitely a different experience music wise. My first impression and same for other locals that had travelled east about that time was the music was too slow. Given this, I don't think playing a slower and different style will help in this situation.

If you intend to change the musical flavour of either the ECS scene or Lindy scene, then it is best done slowly. I agree playing a little more early jump blues at the ECS dances and a little peppier swing at the Lindy events is a good start. Slowly the musical tastes will broaden, hopefully enough where you can have happy ECS dancers and Lindy Hoppers at the same event. The trick is to tepmer the change.

Lawrence · #36 Post by **Lawrence** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:34 am

Neo Swing and Fast lindy music only have tempo in common. The one essential thing that slower "groove" swing music and Neo Swing share in common is accessibility to currently popular tastes in music (Blues, Rap, Hip Hop, Pop Rock...), which is why I submit that playing more "groove" music is a good way to recruit people, just like playing Neo Swing was a way to recruit people back in 1997. Just like Neo Swing was essential "crossover" or "bridge" music to get me to appreciate Basie, Groove Swing is good "crossover" music that could get people interested more traditional jazz.

The one essential thing that groove music and Neo Swing DON'T share in common is that there is more "stuff" to the genre because real jazz and blues musicians play it (they relax within and feed off the rhythm), instead of converted Kid punk rockers (who rush it and don't have the same level of "touch" and talent).

funkyfreak · #37 Post by **funkyfreak** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:12 am

Lawrence wrote:The one essential thing that slower "groove" swing music and Neo Swing share in common is accessibility to currently popular tastes in music (Blues, Rap, Hip Hop, Pop Rock...)

I don't follow, can you explain this? Because what I'm imagining your saying is that "Grooving" Basie has elements of Justin Timberlake in it. I'm going to guess that's not what you're reaching for here

-FF

julius · #38 Post by **julius** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:29 pm

In my experience "groove" music, while beloved by many dancers, doesn't seem to attract new dancers. I see many more new faces at venues that emphasize higher-energy music, whether it's blues (shuffle, not jazz slow-dancing blues), rockabilly, neo, or traditional swing.

Obviously I can only speak for Los Angeles.

mousethief · #39 Post by **mousethief** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:31 pm

Lawrence wrote:Neo Swing and Fast lindy music only have tempo in common. The one essential thing that slower "groove" swing music and Neo Swing share in common is accessibility to currently popular tastes in music (Blues, Rap, Hip Hop, Pop Rock...), which is why I submit that playing more "groove" music is a good way to recruit people, just like playing Neo Swing was a way to recruit people back in 1997. Just like Neo Swing was essential "crossover" or "bridge" music to get me to appreciate Basie, Groove Swing is good "crossover" music that could get people interested more traditional jazz.

Oh Jebus.

I have to guess that you're being serious. You might as well as say playing Rock 'n' Roll is a good call because every knows some Oldies music. Hell, who doesn't love Elvis?

Define Groove. Go on...

What is it? Oscar Peterson? The Three Sounds? I'm sure the new kids up in KC would just love to jump on that one right out of the box.

This thread is about helping a local DJ and instructor, right?

You know what's a good idea for recruitment? Personable, fun-loving dancers, instructors & DJs. Matt Jones, for instance, who does all three with equal skill and attention. I'm not a good model but thankfully, I have Don West to do all the handshaking for mne. They have more Jazz than any other record shop I've ever been. If I remember right there is a store called Magic Bus or something that was unreal. Big Cash is indeed the guy you have to contact. If you want his email PM me and I'll give it to you.

Regarding live music, just walk the French Quarter. There is Jazz everywhere. Even at the airport they play Satchmo songs. How cool is that?

BTW, I'll be at LindyGrass. As Nate says, that is the place to be. After SoFlex off course

Serg

yedancer · #40 Post by **yedancer** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:13 pm

I think what he is trying to say is this:

Lawrence wrote: Just like Neo Swing was essential "crossover" or "bridge" music to get me to appreciate Basie, Groove Swing is good "crossover" music that could get people interested more traditional jazz.

I disagree with that.

Nate Dogg · #41 Post by **Nate Dogg** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:31 pm

yedancer wrote:I think what he is trying to say is this:

Lawrence wrote: Just like Neo Swing was essential "crossover" or "bridge" music to get me to appreciate Basie, Groove Swing is good "crossover" music that could get people interested more traditional jazz.
I disagree with that.

It all depends on how you define traditional jazz.

If you consider the Oscar Peterson Trio's Night Train to be traditional jazz, than yes, groove music would help people get interested.

However, if you think there is nothing traditional about that record, than I can see how you would disagree.

Making opinion statements with subjective words like "traditional jazz" and "groove" are bound to set people off in this forum. I have a feeling that Lawrence is being very misunderstood on this issue, mainly due to his wording.

Besides, saying that "groove" swing is good "crossover" music does not mean that other types of music are not good "crossover" music.

yedancer · #42 Post by **yedancer** » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:37 pm

Nate Dogg wrote:Besides, saying that "groove" swing is good "crossover" music does not mean that other types of music is are not good "crossover" music.

True. But what I do not believe is that "groove" swing is good "crossover" music. I do not believe it will attract new people, or make people want to learn Lindy Hop.

mousethief · #43 Post by **mousethief** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 7:28 am

I think it's the DJ chasing their own tail, personally.

Kalman

gatorgal · #44 Post by **gatorgal** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:02 am

Kalman... just re-read my post regarding your comments. I hope I wasn't too harsh in responding. But I understand where you're coming from.

julius... I totally agree with your point about playing the classics early and often, but I have to disagree with you on one point... I love the vocalists!

Hopefully our new KC addition (whose name has already escaped me in typical Tina fashion) has gotten enough information from this discussion to help him with his scene.

Lawrence... the ball is firmly in your court. I'll stop trying to speak for you and eagerly await your response to all this tom-foolery.

Sorry if the whimsy is too much... just happy that it's Friday!
Tina

mousethief · #45 Post by **mousethief** » Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:13 am

Kalman is emotionless and probably drunk. He cannot be offended.

er...

Kalman