The stuff you don't like

Everything about the swinging music we love to DJ

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falty411
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#91 Post by falty411 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:31 pm

JesseMiner wrote: Sometimes it just so happens that your tastes (music you like to dance to) perfectly coincide with theirs, but often you have to work at it. I think too many DJs are constrained by their definitions of what they would like to dance to, not opening up to what others in their crowd might enjoy. I don't advocate flat out buying music you hate, but I do strongly encourage all DJs to expand their appreciation for different types of swinging music and learning to enjoy a wider variety of it.
If we all did that, would we not all start to sound the same, as DJs? Wouldnt there be less uniqueness between each of us? Wouldnt the world end up like this?

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-mikey faltesek

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Lawrence
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#92 Post by Lawrence » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:46 pm

julius wrote:One good way to kill an interesting argument is to start commenting on the argument itself instead of actually debating about it.
Another good way to kill a good argument is to continue to mischaractarize (straw-man) what the other person said as you keep changing your argument, yourself. Commentary on the argument, itself, is absolutely necessary when that happens.

I don't care if we disagree; I DO care if you mischaractarize what I wrote and then mock it as if I wrote it. But I'm starting to care less about even that.
The crux of our difference lies in the fact that you cannot believe that people would dance to music they don't like, whereas I have solid evidence that many, many people dance to music they don't like. Whether you think they are a "few" or "nonexistent" really doesn't matter, because you have mentioned indirectly time and again that what you believe is surely an absolute.
I never wrote that I can't believe that people would dance to music they don't like: that is a far more broad proposition than saying that almost everyone on the dance floor dances to slow music even though they are "invisibly unhappy" and don't like the music. I wrote that the so-called phenomena of "[a dance floor] full of invisibly unhappy dancers" dancing to slow music they don't like does not make sense (the Chewbacca defense: "it... does not... make sense"): 1) "invisibly unhappy" allows you to project your opinions on others; 2) it flies in the face of my experience. Some people might dance to slower music even though they prefer faster music, but that is the exception that proves the rule, not refutes it. (It proves the rule through its infrequency combined with what happens when faster music is played and the floor empties).

Moreover, people tend to dance to what they like and develop their dancing accordingly. Many people develop their dancing to more moderate tempos and don't bother with learning or developing their dancing to faster music: whether it is because they are too lazy or because they aren't hyperactive, or because they are unathletic or because slower music gives you more room to improvise... it happens. They don't dance to more moderate tempoed music even though they are "invisibly unhappy;" they do so because that is their preference. Like it or not, that is their preference.
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#93 Post by Lawrence » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:50 pm

JesseMiner wrote:There is a difference between refusing to play a song because you think it's an inherently bad song and because it's something that you, the DJ, wouldn't want to dance to yourself.
Yes. Exactly what I have been trying to say, despite some poorly-chosen and distracting examples I perhaps shoudn't have used given the flames I should have known they would ignite.
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#94 Post by BryanC » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:07 pm

falty411 wrote:If we all did that, would we not all start to sound the same, as DJs? Wouldnt there be less uniqueness between each of us?
Some could argue that this has already happened.

There's enough music out there and enough variety in taste, that I think even if all DJ's were to incorporate a wider variety, we'd still end up with lots of room for individuality.

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#95 Post by lindyholic » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:13 pm

One should always be unique. There are enough different DJs for different tastes in music out there that we ought to not have them all trying to appeal to all the dancers. Instead, we have people who like different eras and such. With that much variety in DJs, everyone can get what they want without the DJs having to play music they don't enjoy.

Personally, I will never change my tastes because of what people say they do and don't like. I DJ a certain type of music, and those who enjoy it get that, and those who enjoy other types get it from other DJs.

Harrison
www.lindyhopper.ca, Canada's Swing Site.

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#96 Post by Ron » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:21 pm

Lawrence, whatever point you are trying to make is lost in the sea of words that are your posts.

I agree with Julius about unhappy fast or vintage music lovers that dance a lot of the slower songs anyway. I learned long ago to play at least a couple songs they might like, even if it partially clears the floor. It might make them at least semi-happy without making everyone else too unhappy.

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#97 Post by CafeSavoy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:28 pm

falty411 wrote:
JesseMiner wrote: Sometimes it just so happens that your tastes (music you like to dance to) perfectly coincide with theirs, but often you have to work at it. I think too many DJs are constrained by their definitions of what they would like to dance to, not opening up to what others in their crowd might enjoy. I don't advocate flat out buying music you hate, but I do strongly encourage all DJs to expand their appreciation for different types of swinging music and learning to enjoy a wider variety of it.
If we all did that, would we not all start to sound the same, as DJs? Wouldnt there be less uniqueness between each of us? Wouldnt the world end up like this?
Not really. That's where individuality comes into play. Even if we were to all play from the same cds, each person will pick a different subset of the tracks. i'm sure we've all had the experience of discovering music we already have only after someone else plays it. it's ironic that you are responding to a call for more diverse tastes by claiming it will result in homogenization when that result is more likely when you have more restricted choices.

I think there's an old saying about being careful about what you hate because you become it. i think the more anal we get about what is or is not lindy/swing/authentic etc, the closer we approach international dancesport. rigorously excluding what is not swing music is just as anal as rigorously defining what should be included. it's not to say you shouldn't draw lines, but just not to the point of being anal.

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#98 Post by Nate Dogg » Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:39 pm

falty411 wrote:If we all did that, would we not all start to sound the same, as DJs? Wouldnt there be less uniqueness between each of us? Wouldnt the world end up like this?
Decided to make it personal and play the attack Jesse card. It is cute and all, somewhat related to the Star Wars subplot of this thread. But, pretty insulting to the dance community. I have always thought that the "Jesse Clone" stuff has just people being jealous.

When I started DJing, folks like Jesse, and Rayned were role models. They have always been nice to me, online and offline. Not only in terms of music, but how they treat their dancers and fellow DJs.

Jesse's success has not come from him abusing "the dark side of the force."

Ok, that should be enough to get some flame posts from the usual suspects :P

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#99 Post by JesseMiner » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:00 pm

BryanC wrote:There's enough music out there and enough variety in taste, that I think even if all DJ's were to incorporate a wider variety, we'd still end up with lots of room for individuality.
Exactly.
CafeSavoy wrote:Even if we were to all play from the same cds, each person will pick a different subset of the tracks. i'm sure we've all had the experience of discovering music we already have only after someone else plays it.
One of my favorite dance experiences was at an outdoor dance at the Austin Exchange a few years ago. Adrianna from Denver was DJing (kick ass DJ by the way!). She didn't have her books with her, so I lent her mine. We both have similar tastes, but she played a totally different set than I would have. Of course I was still loving every minute of it as it was all my favorite music.

And Rayned can attest that I have asked him about the same Jimmy Witherspoon track on several occasions, only to be reminded each time that I actually have the track. I just need to remember to play it now! ;)

Jesse

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#100 Post by Nando » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:44 pm

What's wrong with exploring other musical selections. There are so many untapped songs out there worth exploring. If you just stretch a little you could probably find something you've never heard before - or as Jesse stated, something in your book that you've overlooked before.

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#101 Post by main_stem » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:49 pm

BryanC wrote:
falty411 wrote:If we all did that, would we not all start to sound the same, as DJs? Wouldnt there be less uniqueness between each of us?
Some could argue that this has already happened.
I would tend to agree with this.
BryanC wrote:There's enough music out there and enough variety in taste, that I think even if all DJ's were to incorporate a wider variety, we'd still end up with lots of room for individuality.
Hell ya. Unfortunately there are too many playing the same stuff they always do and others do. I find it funny when I go places and DJs are carrying 3 binders yet sound the same as the DJ the previous night or hell right before them.

-Kevin
"We called it music."
— Eddie Condon

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#102 Post by BryanC » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:07 pm

CafeSavoy wrote:I think there's an old saying about being careful about what you hate because you become it. i think the more anal we get about what is or is not lindy/swing/authentic etc, the closer we approach international dancesport. rigorously excluding what is not swing music is just as anal as rigorously defining what should be included. it's not to say you shouldn't draw lines, but just not to the point of being anal.
The great appeal (and perhaps swing dancing's greatest strength) to learning a "street dance", I think, has everything to do with accessibility (it's not expected of you to know much more about your dance than what you want to know, hence the dance is accessible to everyone, including those who don't have huge volumes of specialized knowledge) and perhaps equally, the lack of strict rules.

That being said, it equally fine not to explore other options, if that's what you want to do.

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#103 Post by Nate Dogg » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:19 pm

main_stem wrote: Hell ya. Unfortunately there are too many playing the same stuff they always do and others do. I find it funny when I go places and DJs are carrying 3 binders yet sound the same as the DJ the previous night or hell right before them.
-Kevin
I have noticed that as well (not only DJs staying within a style all the time, but playing a large number of the same songs every time they DJ).

I think having too many binders can sometimes be a hinderance. It takes such effort to pick a song, navigate through it all, that they end up resorting to tried and true songs too often.

That is my theory at least for some of the local DJs who carry three 150-200 ring binders with them every time they DJ. I see them scrambling for songs and they end up playing a song they play all the time.

When I burned all my CDs down to compilations that consist only of songs that intended to play, having maximum variety from set to set was easier, even though I carried around a lot less CDs.

I can imagine the laptop DJs with decent hard drive space can attest to similar experiences.

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#104 Post by falty411 » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:30 pm

Nate Dogg wrote:Decided to make it personal and play the attack Jesse card.
Im not attacking Jesse at all. its not his fault that there are tons of DJs who try to play exactly like him. And I also thought it would be scary to have jesse miner pointing two guns at everyone.
-mikey faltesek

"Dancing is the union of the body with the rhythm and the sound of the music." Al Minns in 1984

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#105 Post by Nando » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:33 pm

falty411 wrote:
Nate Dogg wrote:Decided to make it personal and play the attack Jesse card.
Im not attacking Jesse at all. its not his fault that there are tons of DJs who try to play exactly like him. And I also thought it would be scary to have jesse miner pointing two guns at everyone.
Not as scary as thinking you have a poster like that in your bedroom. :)

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