If you were to buy just one Sinatra CD...

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AlekseyKosygin
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If you were to buy just one Sinatra CD...

#1 Post by AlekseyKosygin » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:04 pm

What would it be? This is of course a question for DJ's so I'm wondering what one CD has the most swinging danceable tunes, there is so much stuff out by him and I know alot of it is also pretty bad so I'm wondering what folks would recommend...

KevinSchaper
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#2 Post by KevinSchaper » Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:22 pm

definitely Live at the Sands..

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#3 Post by CafeSavoy » Sat Nov 15, 2003 12:29 am

For you i'd recommend:


Swing and Dance With Frank Sinatra
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Date of Release Dec 1, 1944 - Jul 19, 1951

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Lawrence
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#4 Post by Lawrence » Sat Nov 15, 2003 1:53 pm

"Songs For Swingin Lovers" is one of my favorites. However, there is not much of a difference among Sinatra's many Big Band Swing albums/CDs. Sinatra tended to release albums that stuck within a certain genre. If the album features any Big Band Swing on it, then it usually will have several danceable songs of equal quality on it. These albums are fairly fungible with several good dance songs.

The REAL question to ask is on which CDs he does nothing but croon: Sweet Tommy Dorseyish material from the Swing Eral or sappy, Orchestral showtune material from later. Those are the CDs to avoid for Lindy Hop.

In other words, so long as you avoid a crooner album, it doesn't really matter. There is not a huge difference.

The best Sinatra albums/CDs with danceable music that I own:

Songs For Swingin Lovers (1956)
Come Fly With Me (mostly 1957)
Swing and Dance with Frank Sinatra (1946-51)
Come Dance With Me (1958)
Sinatra's Swinging Sessions (1960)
Sinatra Swings (1961)
Sinatra & Sextet in Paris (1962) (contains lots of crooning songs, as well)
It Might as Well Be Swing (with Basie in the Studio) (1964)
Sinatra at the Sands with Count Basie and The Orchestra (1966)

Nice N Easy is somewhat in between: great slower dance songs, but not as schmaltzey as the bulk of his crooner material.

Some all-Crooner CDs I own:

In the Wee Small Hours
(Sings for) Only the Lonely
Where are You
Point of No Return
V-Discs
16 Most Requested Songs
Blue Skies

This list doesn't include the many "Best of Captiol," "Best of Reprise," or "Duets" CDs that are out there, all of which contain both crooner and Swing songs.

For dancing, I would also avoid almost every "Rat Pack" CD that features him with Sammy Davis, Jr. or Dean Martin. Funny for listening and casual entertainment, but they are usually too drunk to be reliable.
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gatorgal
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#5 Post by gatorgal » Sat Nov 15, 2003 5:52 pm

KevinSchaper wrote:definitely Live at the Sands..
Ditto.

Tina 8)
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Greg Avakian
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#6 Post by Greg Avakian » Mon Nov 17, 2003 3:21 pm

gatorgal wrote:
KevinSchaper wrote:definitely Live at the Sands..
Ditto.

Tina 8)
Double ditto.

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falty411
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#7 Post by falty411 » Mon Nov 17, 2003 5:30 pm

i would say to save your money and buy something sinatra-free
-mikey faltesek

"Dancing is the union of the body with the rhythm and the sound of the music." Al Minns in 1984

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AlekseyKosygin
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#8 Post by AlekseyKosygin » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:07 pm

falty411 wrote:i would say to save your money and buy something sinatra-free
Just trying to round out my collection...I like some Sinatra...please recomend me some "Sinatra Free" stuff...I'm all ears...

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#9 Post by Lindy Bomb » Mon Nov 17, 2003 8:48 pm

Why not check out his earliest stuff, with Harry James in 1939? It's not all Sinatra, but he sings 8 of the tracks. I don't own this cd, but I've heard some stuff off of it and I was fairly pleased (I'm not a big fan of Sinatra for dance music). However, this stuff is surprisingly un-Sinatra-like. Then again, maybe that's not what you're going for.

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Lawrence
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#10 Post by Lawrence » Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:17 pm

falty411 wrote:i would say to save your money and buy something sinatra-free
(Ugh. :roll: )
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CafeSavoy
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#11 Post by CafeSavoy » Mon Nov 17, 2003 11:24 pm

Lindy Bomb wrote:Why not check out his earliest stuff, with Harry James in 1939? It's not all Sinatra, but he sings 8 of the tracks. I don't own this cd, but I've heard some stuff off of it and I was fairly pleased (I'm not a big fan of Sinatra for dance music). However, this stuff is surprisingly un-Sinatra-like. Then again, maybe that's not what you're going for.
It's a decent cd, but i wouldn't get it for the Frank Sinatra cuts. The instrumentals are better. Those same Sinatra tracks are also on Hindsight release, Harry James and His Orchestra Featuring Frank Sinatra, All of Me. But the Chronogical Classics is a better buy since it has instrumentals missing from the Hindsight release.

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#12 Post by AlekseyKosygin » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:40 am

I have a vinyl record of his first recordings with James in 39 and to be honest I wasn't that impressed...I really feel that his 50's and 60's (listenability wise at least) stuff is alot better, the songs are better and his voice is alot more confident and stronger.

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#13 Post by JesseMiner » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:24 pm

Another vote for "Live At The Sands". I love his version of "Fly Me To The Moon" on there.

Here's a post that I wrote to the SwingDJs list on Yahoo last year.

-----Original Message-----

From: Jesse Miner
Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002
To: SwingDJs List
Subject: [SwingDJs] Re: Sinatra Swinging

I'm not the biggest Sinatra fan for when it comes to swing dancing, but he does have some great stuff. What has bugged me in a lot of his recordings has been the focus on his relaxed vocal style over the accompaniment. The backing band ends up being subordinate to his singing (it's all about Frank!). Also much of the "swinging" accompaniment isn't driving in the way that dancers have come to expect and enjoy. These factors often translates into the music not being as "dancer-friendly" or more likely "dancer-inspiring".

The most noticeable exception to this, IMHO, has been his recordings with Count Basie (granted I have a huge Basie bias, and I can't comment much on his recordings with Tommy Dorsey as I haven't heard enough of them). Basie swings hard and clear underneath Sinatra's vocals, making a lot of the tunes great for dancing. When I DJ, I carry a lot of Sinatra/Basie recordings with me to satisfy any Sinatra requests (there are some dancers who do request him on a regular basis). "Sinatra At The Sands" is probably my favorite recording due to the high energy of the live performance, but "Sinatra-Basie" swings equally though in mellower style. "It Might As Well Be Swing" isn't too shabby either.

-----Original Message-----

Jesse

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Lawrence
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#14 Post by Lawrence » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:19 pm

JesseMiner wrote:I'm not the biggest Sinatra fan for when it comes to swing dancing, but he does have some great stuff. What has bugged me in a lot of his recordings has been the focus on his relaxed vocal style over the accompaniment. The backing band ends up being subordinate to his singing (it's all about Frank!). Also much of the "swinging" accompaniment isn't driving in the way that dancers have come to expect and enjoy. These factors often translates into the music not being as "dancer-friendly" or more likely "dancer-inspiring".
I mostly agree with everything Jesse wrote. Indeed, I wrote a similar post on that old Swing Mailing list (prior to Yahoo Groups) years ago. Sinatra's vocal phrasing often glides over the rhythm--instead of stream from or feed off the rhytm--so as to disrupt the rhythm for many dancers.

However, to state the obvious, it all being "about Frank" was the point of Sinatra albums. (I'm sure Jesse didn't mean it as a slam, but it could be read that way). They didn't miss the point; they did it intentionally.

Moreover, even though his style does not fit either the "Original Era Swing" paradigm or the new "Groove Swing" paradigm or the old "Neo Swing" paradigm of Lindy Hop dance music, I LIKE it that way. I enjoy the difference that a Sinatra song puts in the dance: more romantic and smooth, although not ridiculously schmaltzy like Sweet music, and still without being a twerpy "Mel Torme-like" romantic geek. I wouldn't want to dance to it, exclusively, but I definitely enjoy dancing to it.

Perhaps this point also serves as a response to those superficial "to define is to limit" criticisms of my efforts to try to describe what defines the rhythmic differences between "Original Classic Swing" music and "Groove Swing" music. Saying "they're all swing" somewhat denies the obvious spread in opinions/preferences and ignores the obvious differences.

Moreover, in my experience, understanding the differences actually OPENS my mind into appreciating that my own preferences can develop or evolve into appreciating other music I once found repulsive. I used to be a die-hard "Original Era" guy and sneered at the Oscar Peterson fans trying to ruin the "purity of the dance" by playing music to which Lindy Hop was not designed/created. :shock: I also couldn't stand Lindy Hopping to anything under 150 BPM: thinking mistakenly that the basic patterns were designed for fast music and couldn't be adapted to slower music. :shock:

But then I relaxed a bit, opened my mind, and now I prefer Oscar Peterson over most original era music. I also often prefer dancing to slower music to allow people of different abilities to more easily improvise. I wasn't able to do so until I forced myself to dance to that Oscar Peterson crap, and eventually understood first HOW the Oscar Peterson/Ray Brown Swing Rhythm subtly differed from Original Era music and, second, how to interpret it differently in my dancing so that it makes sense and "fits." Even if it happens on a sub-conscious, non-analytical level, that subtle appreciation of those differences allowed me to adapt instead of remain stuck in tradition.

The same thing might be said about some Lindy Hoppers disdain for the Sinatra Swing material: they often get caught trying to fit their mono-rhythmic style that is suited for Groove-swing or Original-swing into Sinatra Swing and it just doesn't fit: just as some groovers "don't get" Original Era music and some Original Era fans "don't get" why so many people prefer "Groove Swing." Listening for that difference and perhaps even "forcing" yourself to try to make it work just might turn some people on to Sinatra.

But, then again, my Sinatra defense might just reflect Dorota's influence on me. :)
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#15 Post by Yakov » Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:56 am

i found a three-LP set in my grandmother's collection from Capitol records... some great stuff there... "Lean Baby" (a jazz song I love his version), "Old McDonald" (yes really), a lot of the tracks are good for dancing. So look for Capitol stuff.

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