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Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:11 am
by omsuperhoops
hey guys, so as most of you know about the Stephen Mitchell "legacy" and how the scene (at least in the States) is hoping to begin a massive shift in the culture of our lindy hops.

What do you guys think about the music Mitchell has released and playing it at dances? Should it be banned? Is banning it strong enough statement? Should we even make a statement? What about the musicians playing with him? Should they suffer from this as well?

I know this particular issue may seem like a no-brainer for some and a non issue for others. But I am curious as to where my fellow djs are

Can you separate the art from the artist?

This hits home for a lot of us. So answer earnestly and honestly, I would like to think that this is a safe space for ALL opinions and thoughts.


As a special bonus question, how many of you have removed Michael Jackson from your archives?

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:39 am
by trev
I wrote on another forum:

DJing Steven Mitchell's recordings will make people uncomfortable. For that reason alone I won't be DJing them.
Yes there are other artist that have done bad things and sing appalling lyrics that represent outdated ideas, but I think we can appreciate them as being anachronistic.
Banning is too strong a word. Everyone can make their own call, but right now if you DJ this recording you are effectively saying "I don't care about how you feel". It's the same as getting on the mic and making offensive jokes.

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:09 pm
by CountBasi
Fair questions. I'll contribute if only because I feel like it's been ages since I posted anything on here.

I don't remember having ever played anything he performed on anyway so it won't impact my DJing whatsoever. 'Jitterbug Stroll' has always made me cringe.

As for the musicians who performed with him, I see no reason at all to play more or less of their music. Unless anyone comes forward with enough conviction that any of them supported his less savoury activities, I don't see a justification to pay them any mind.

Michael Jackson : I've added his content to my library since your post, thanks for turning me onto him.

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:29 am
by SiMonster
Certainly not an easy question...
As a DJ it doesn't really affect me since I never really played his tunes. But I also teach Lindy Hop and now I the consequence for me will be to not play Stevens Jitterbug Stroll anymore - to be honest, I never liked this song

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:10 am
by penguin
The most played song would be Gordon Webster's "I Like Pie" with Stephen Mitchell on vocals.

As DJs our job is to ensure that the crowd has a good time - and that means avoiding tracks that could be potentially triggering for example songs that contain themes of sexual assault ("Baby, it's Cold Outside" - seriously, can people stop recording/playing this, "A Guy is a Guy"), domestic violence ("Stone Cold Dead In The Market") or by artists who are associated with these crimes, as well as songs that are just inappropriate to dance to (e.g. Strange Fruit - if you don't know what it's about, look it up - and Just A Closer Walk With Thee, a song normally played at funerals).

Frankly given the language gap and general level of musical ignorance here (my hobby - explaining to people what the lyrics *actually* mean) my standard more relates to songs that make me feel icky

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:45 pm
by lipi
penguin wrote:songs that are just inappropriate to dance to [...] Just A Closer Walk With Thee, a song normally played at funerals.
The kinds of funerals at which there was lots of dancing.

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:57 pm
by trev
Maybe we could make a list of "Reconsider Playing These" tracks (with reasons why), as part of a hypothetical new FAQ section ;)

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:12 am
by penguin
lipi wrote:
penguin wrote:songs that are just inappropriate to dance to [...] Just A Closer Walk With Thee, a song normally played at funerals.
The kinds of funerals at which there was lots of dancing.
Correct, but not to a Closer Walk With Thee - the dancing comes at the end of the service (once the deceased has been buried or entombed) to more uptempo songs such as Didn't He Ramble.

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:28 pm
by lipi
penguin wrote:
lipi wrote:
penguin wrote:songs that are just inappropriate to dance to [...] Just A Closer Walk With Thee, a song normally played at funerals.
The kinds of funerals at which there was lots of dancing.
Correct, but not to a Closer Walk With Thee - the dancing comes at the end of the service (once the deceased has been buried or entombed) to more uptempo songs such as Didn't He Ramble.
The point I was trying to emphasize with my admittedly snide comment is that "inappropriate" is incredibly subjective. You actually already said it yourself, but I felt it had gotten a bit lost in your post: "my standard more relates to songs that make me feel icky". That is all.

Somewhat related: I really want to play "Mississippi Goddam'" at a dance. Such a wonderfully impossible rhythm.

Re: Music within the culture shift.

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:32 pm
by kitkat
See this thread on Eddie Reed. It convinced me 10+ years ago to stop playing him in public despite how great "Hollywood Jump" is.

Steven Mitchell is my all-time favorite modern swing singer. I doubt I'll ever hear another - especially a male singer - whose delivery I find so flawless and reminiscent of the Jimmy Rushing, Sy Oliver, Trummy Young, etc. way of delivering lyrics.

But it's important to me to stop playing his music in public. I don't want to contribute to a culture 10 years from now (when younger dancers have forgotten) where people ask me who that was and think, "Wow, I have to look into him more" and put him on a pedestal (ignoring what people he harmed went through) the way our society does with Roman Polanski and Woody Allen and R. Kelly. In other words, I don't want to give him attention anymore. He's had plenty. It's the victims' time now.

I also don't want to give anyone at my gigs a bad time. His music makes me have a great time. As I said, he's my favorite modern singer. But one of his victims' testimonies said that "every time she heard him sing about women, it felt like he was singing about her." (And that that was a bad thing.) I don't want people to go home from a dance I'm playing unhappy.

So, like "Baby It's Cold Outside" and "Strange Fruit" and everything I have by Eddie Reed, the music is now for listening only - not spinning.